Wny does EPAK have Grandmasters?

[Carol]

Caught a post on KenpoTalk that mentioned how Mr. Parker associated different titles to the different degrees of BB.

Example (borrowed from Mr. Billings' website)

1st Black Junior Instructor
2nd Black Assistant Instructor
3rd Black Head Instructor
4th Black Senior Instructor
5th Black Associate Professor
6th Black Professor
7th Black Senior Professor
8th Black Associate Master
9th Black Master
10th Black Senior Master of the Art




If a 10th Black is Senior Master of the Art, then why are the nosebleed-ranked folks such as Larry Tatum, Huk Planas, and others referring to themselves [at least, on their own websites] as Grandmasters instead of Senior Masters of the Art?

If I were to be cynical, I'm sure I could come up with reasons as to why this was done...but I was curious to see if by chance this was done for reaons other than that.

This is Ed Parker's naming system for the different degrees, yes?

 

[Hand Sword]

It's all part of the marketing process.

 

[HKphooey]

It is just a title.

I personally have never heard Larry Tatum refer to himself as Grandmaster Tatum. He has been fine with Mr. or Master Tatum.

And I agree with Hand Sword, Marketing 101.

Garbage Man or Sanitational Engineer, which sounds better to you?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Definately it is marketing. While I do not agree with it unfortuantely I can understand it.

 

[Carol]

It is just a title.

I personally have never heard Larry Tatum refer to himself as Grandmaster Tatum. He has been fine with Mr. or Master Tatum.

And I agree with Hand Sword, Marketing 101.

Garbage Man or Sanitational Engineer, which sounds better to you?

It is just a title.

I personally have never heard Larry Tatum refer to himself as Grandmaster Tatum. He has been fine with Mr. or Master Tatum.

And I agree with Hand Sword, Marketing 101.

Garbage Man or Sanitational Engineer, which sounds better to you?

But...but....but....but....that's not the way Mr. Parker did it!

:roflmao:
:roflmao:

And I always thought that if I referred to Huk as "Grandmaster Planas" I'd be the next one called to be uke.

And don't even get me started on misuse of the term engineer... :rofl:

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Caught a post on KenpoTalk that mentioned how Mr. Parker associated different titles to the different degrees of BB.

Example (borrowed from Mr. Billings' website)

1st Black Junior Instructor
2nd Black Assistant Instructor
3rd Black Head Instructor
4th Black Senior Instructor
5th Black Associate Professor
6th Black Professor
7th Black Senior Professor
8th Black Associate Master
9th Black Master
10th Black Senior Master of the Art




If a 10th Black is Senior Master of the Art, then why are the nosebleed-ranked folks such as Larry Tatum, Huk Planas, and others referring to themselves [at least, on their own websites] as Grandmasters instead of Senior Masters of the Art?

If I were to be cynical, I'm sure I could come up with reasons as to why this was done...but I was curious to see if by chance this was done for reaons other than that.

This is Ed Parker's naming system for the different degrees, yes?

Historically the Grandmaster is a title given to the highest ranking person in an art or association. Therefore while "Senior Master of the Arts" is a title for the number of degrees in kenpo, "Grandmaster" is a title for anyone in any art (not just kenpo) that has the highest rank (position) in his or her art or association. It's more of a martial arts thing than just a kenpo thing.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, it has to do with being head of your style or at least your own organization. IF you establish an organization or make some changes and call what you do something different from what it was, then you are the Grandmaster.

And yes, I would put this up there in the realm of "Marketing 101", and perhaps ego as well. Not to disparage the skill and knowledge of these people, all of whom I am sure could kick my butt up and down the hall in their sleep. I just find a lot of the rank and titles being thrown around and seized upon a bit silly. I swear, sometimes it seems you can't throw a stone without hitting another 10th degree grandmaster of some sort, kenpo and otherwise...

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Yes, it has to do with being head of your style or at least your own organization. IF you establish an organization or make some changes and call what you do something different from what it was, then you are the Grandmaster.

And yes, I would put this up there in the realm of "Marketing 101", and perhaps ego as well. Not to disparage the skill and knowledge of these people, all of whom I am sure could kick my butt up and down the hall in their sleep. I just find a lot of the rank and titles being thrown around and seized upon a bit silly. I swear, sometimes it seems you can't throw a stone without hitting another 10th degree grandmaster of some sort, kenpo and otherwise...

All this talk about titles coming from a "Martial Talk Senior Master", Hypocrite.

 

[Flying Crane]

All this talk about titles coming from a "Martial Talk Senior Master", Hypocrite.

well I gotta get my rank SOMEHOW! heh heh..

 

[HKphooey]

The baddest Grandmaster of them all...

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

The baddest Grandmaster of them all...

But then someone took his style and made some changes of their own and took the title "Funkmaster"

 

[HKphooey]

But then someone took his style and made some changes of their own and took the title "Funkmaster"

Hee hee
:rofl:

 

[Sigung86]

Got a call last night from a new prospective student. He's coming to interview tonight. He did Kenpo in Phoenix, but moved back here. There aren't any EPAK schools that are anywhere even remotely close to me, so I'm the bessus' there is around here. :rofl:

He asked what he should call me... After some consideration, I told him, "You can call me what my Mom and Dad called me"...

He: "Dan"?

Me: "No ... You can call me, Sir". :rofl:

Then indicated that was a joke. He laughed loudly and longly. I think we're gonna get along just fine.

Most altruistically yours,

Dan Farmer,
Great-Senior-Outrageously-High-up-there -Googalymoogah-Grand-Master-of-Dynamic Kenpo Concepts & Charter Member and-Great-High-Epopt-Whoofa-Doofa-Muckety-Muck-of- the-First-Church-of-the-Immaculate-Misconception-and-Presumptuous- Assumption-Bowling-Team-Meetings-every-Thursday-night-at-Freds Bowl-a-rama-in-the-snack-bar

 

[IWishToLearn]

Most altruistically yours,

Dan Farmer,
Great-Senior-Outrageously-High-up-there -Googalymoogah-Grand-Master-of-Dynamic Kenpo Concepts & Charter Member and-Great-High-Epopt-Whoofa-Doofa-Muckety-Muck-of- the-First-Church-of-the-Immaculate-Misconception-and-Presumptuous- Assumption-Bowling-Team-Meetings-every-Thursday-night-at-Freds Bowl-a-rama-in-the-snack-bar

So now I have to call you the GSOHUTGGMoDKCCMaGHEWDMMotFCotIMaPABTMeTnaFBitsn
?

Or can I just stick with Dan?
:matrix:

Hehe
And yo! You didn't get back to me on which patches you wanted.

 

[IWishToLearn]

Oh yes... almost forgot to answer the question.

My instructors use an entirely different curriculum, but were amongst SGM Parker's senior students. So - since it's a different curriculum, they have the right as 10th Degrees to carry whichever title they wish. Both carry a Grandmaster title, but neither use it either conversationally or in print. Whenever either one of them calls me or emails me, they say, Hi Steve, it's Chuck...or Hi Steve, it's Vic. As their students, we maintain the practice of referring to them by their IKCA titles - Senior Grand Master Sullivan and Grand Master Le Roux. But it's always nice to see the twinge of "Dammit I hate being called that - just call me by my name" show up on their faces. For all they've accomplished and all right they both have to claim the titles - they're both extremely humble individuals and I feel privileged to call them my teachers.

 

[bujuts]

It doesn't, or at least, shouldn't. No one is teaching EPAK because no one is "EP".

Any grandmaster (not a self appointed title btw, unless the ego is involved) is obviously teaching their own understanding of kenpo, and the ones to whom this string of posts refers were students of the SGM for varying lengths of time and at varying levels of understanding of AK.

They all have their own system, but I seriously dobut anyone is claiming to be teaching "EPAK" as EP taught it, without their own developments interwoven into the system. Frankly, if someone is a 10th, then I would serious reservations about them if they didn't claim it as their own interpretation of the system.

Ultimately, I suppose it lies on how we define "EPAK", though. But, like all rank, even the fat stripes mean widely varying things.

Personally, I just love being low rank. Show up, line up, shut up, train, go home.

Salute,

Steven Brown
UKF

 

[Doc]

Funny, I have a title but it took me a moment to remember it. On paper, its "Senior Master Professor," or SMP for short. No naked 'masters,' grand, senior, or otherwise while I'm alive. Mostly they just call me "Doc" and I wear the same belt as everyone else. Plain black. "Stripes? We don't need no stinkin stripes." and my Grand Teacher passed away and no one can wear his title.

 

[Hand Sword]

In the real sense of things: AMEN to that statement! He is sorely missed!

 

[Sigung86]

So now I have to call you the GSOHUTGGMoDKCCMaGHEWDMMotFCotIMaPABTMeTnaFBitsn
?

Or can I just stick with Dan?
:matrix:

Hehe
And yo! You didn't get back to me on which patches you wanted.

Lowly Earthworm!!!!! You left off the last "b"!!!! I guess there is no communication among equals after all? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I replied to your email.

 

[IWishToLearn]

Bah. I hit the N instead of the B. So sue me