Why train combinations

[Tony Dismukes]

Some interesting thoughts on the purpose of training combinations from Crazy Monkey Defense instructor Rodney King: Why Train Combinations?

 

[Danny T]

To be able to hit any angle from any angle.
To attack any opening from any position.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You want to

- use move 1 to set up move 2.
- apply move 1, when your opponent resists, you borrow his resistance force, change direction, and apply move2.

The proper training order should be:

1. offense skill,
2. defense skill,
3. combo.

The combo training should be after the solo training.

 

[Spinedoc]

Even in Aikido we practice (at higher levels) Kaeshi waza (reversals), and Henka waza, conversion from one technique to another. Sometimes we even mix them. At our last advanced class, uke attacked with a grab, nage responded by initiating ikkyo, uke responded by reversing to sankyo (kaeshi waza), and then nage responded by converting to soto kotegaeshi. So, attack, technique, kaeshi, henka, finish. All based on movements and resistance.

 

[drop bear]

Almost the reverse of what I would consider standard.

Which would be combinations should run with some sort of logic behind them. So a punch creates an opportunity for an opening which the next punch exploits. That is why they go together.

The random shots would be the exception not the rule.

 

[Buka]

Maybe I'm slow, but doesn't every fighting system train combinations?

 

[marques]

Once I asked a beginner to spar and... he had no idea what to do (after 2 year Karate, but it is another story). So, obviously combinations at least give some ideas and something to start from. First Muay Thai classes are combinations...

But I don't use [predetermined] combinations myself. What we do is (or should be) what our opponent allows. So my "combination" is "always" break the defense mostly with jab / low kicks / feints; and finish with hook or uppercut. Very few techniques, yet a lot of possibilities and enough to induce confusion on the other side.

Probably I am off topic because I didn't read carefully the article. I just want to say that I hate the style of fighting people as fighting a bag. Combinations with 'no' defence, no psychic work, striking where there is no sense...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Maybe I'm slow, but doesn't every fighting system train combinations?

Some MA system used combo more than others. For example, both the preying mantis system and the Chinese wrestling system have used the combo to the extreme.

In the preying mantis system, the longest combo that I know is:

1. right arm contact your opponent's arm,
2. left hand contact his elbow,
3. right hand strike the right side of his head,
4. left hand block his block,
5. right hand strike the left side of his head,
6. right hand pull his block,
7, left hand re- pull his block,
8. right hand strike the front of his face.

In Chinese wrestling system, the longest combo that I know is:

1. neck wipe,
2. leg twist,
3. leg lift,
4. inner foot edge sweep.
5. shin bite,
6. leg block,
7. outer twist,
8. slant cut.

IMO, the advantage to train combos is you can understand how to use the 1st move to set up the 2nd move, use the 2nd move to set up the 3rd move, and ...

 

[JR 137]

Almost the reverse of what I would consider standard.

Which would be combinations should run with some sort of logic behind them. So a punch creates an opportunity for an opening which the next punch exploits. That is why they go together.

The random shots would be the exception not the rule.

I agree with what you say and what the article says. I practice kind of specific combinations. Mix up the levels of attack - 2 punches to the ribs should logically drop an opponent's hands to protect that area, opening up the head for a few shots, then going back to the ribs/stomach. Kick the thigh while moving in for a cross to the nose or uppercut to the chin, etc.

But the author brings up a very valid point - don't rely on walking in and doing some predetermined combo. Your combo has to take what the opponent gives you. Hitting a guy 5 times in the ribs won't 100% guarantee he'll drop his hands. If you're thinking stomach-stomach-head, what if he's already protecting his stomach from the outset? What if the only opening is a right hook to the body, yet you don't train any combos that start off with it?

I mainly take 'see an opening and immediately attack it before it's gone' and 'don't depend on anything solid' from the articles. I've tried so many times to force something during sparring. I can't recall a single time where forcing something actually worked against a non-compliant adult. Against kids or complete newbies that have never fought before, sure; but against someone with a drop of actual experience? Never. At least that's my personal experience. Your mileage may vary.

 

[JR 137]

Also...

Is it just me, or did anyone else have a completely different image of who the author was before you clicked on the link?

I have to admit I chuckled a bit about Rodney King teaching anything related to self defense. I guess I don't grow up, I just get older.

 

[Touch Of Death]

To be able to hit any angle from any angle.
To attack any opening from any position.

You can do that without a combination.

 

[drop bear]

I agree with what you say and what the article says. I practice kind of specific combinations. Mix up the levels of attack - 2 punches to the ribs should logically drop an opponent's hands to protect that area, opening up the head for a few shots, then going back to the ribs/stomach. Kick the thigh while moving in for a cross to the nose or uppercut to the chin, etc.

But the author brings up a very valid point - don't rely on walking in and doing some predetermined combo. Your combo has to take what the opponent gives you. Hitting a guy 5 times in the ribs won't 100% guarantee he'll drop his hands. If you're thinking stomach-stomach-head, what if he's already protecting his stomach from the outset? What if the only opening is a right hook to the body, yet you don't train any combos that start off with it?

I mainly take 'see an opening and immediately attack it before it's gone' and 'don't depend on anything solid' from the articles. I've tried so many times to force something during sparring. I can't recall a single time where forcing something actually worked against a non-compliant adult. Against kids or complete newbies that have never fought before, sure; but against someone with a drop of actual experience? Never. At least that's my personal experience. Your mileage may vary.

I recently got nailed by a left hand wave to the side right hand upper cut that my oponant saw on you tube.

You have both these set pieces and adaptations.

They are two tools and get used for different curcinstance.

 

[Danny T]

You can do that without a combination.

Combinations allows one to develop the skill to do so within movement and from odd positions while in movement.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The combo is like

- chess game. You try to think 1 or 2 steps ahead of your opponent.
- computer programming the CASE (SWITCH) statement. You try to include all possible outcomes include a "fault handler (default)" that handle all UN-expected outcomes.

For example,

switch (You throw a left side kick)
{
case 'Your opponent downward block with right arm': You right hook at his head; break;
case 'Your opponent downward block with left arm': You right spin back fist at his head; break;
default 'such as your opponent steps back, steps side way, ...': You pull you side kick back and move back;
}

 

[JowGaWolf]

On a technical level. combinations set up an entry and an exit for techniques. Just throwing one punch or one kick usually invites a counter.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Because if you' don't and the first punc doesn't work then you're screwed

 

[drop bear]

Because if you' don't and the first punc doesn't work then you're screwed

Yeah god forbid they might be moving around or defending or something.

 

[drop bear]

I recently got nailed by a left hand wave to the side right hand upper cut that my oponant saw on you tube.

You have both these set pieces and adaptations.

They are two tools and get used for different curcinstance.

He did that to another guy last night.

 

[Buka]

For Christmas, I want to fight a guy who doesn't throw combinations.

And then I want a unicorn ridden by an honest lawyer. Hey, we all got dreams.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I want to fight a guy who doesn't throw combinations.

On wrestling mat, I have met someone who doesn't use combo. He moves in, if fail, he will move back, and tries the same move again. In wrestling, if you don't know how to use "pull" to set up "push", or the other way around, wrestling is not your game.