Why Here?

[Kane]

If this martial art is from Israel shouldn't it be under like Middle Eastern martial arts? I have always thought Western refers to Euorpe, USA Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Possibly Russia as well. But I never heard Israel being classified as Western .

 

[mantis]

If this martial art is from Israel shouldn't it be under like Middle Eastern martial arts? I have always thought Western refers to Euorpe, USA Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Possibly Russia as well. But I never heard Israel being classified as Western .

it's relatively west compared to the origin of the majority of martial arts. maybe this is better than opening a new "middle east" category. Israel claims to be a part of Europe not asia.

 

[arnisador]

He actually began developing it in Eastern Europe, if memory serves, then moved to Israel. Also, it's principally based on boxing and wrestling with some Judo, or at least it was in its original incarnation (again, if memory serves). So, I think Western is a fair classification. But it has now evolved, certainly, and there are indded other Middle Eastern systems...but I doubt we have enough people here knowledgeable enough to discuss them!

 

[Loki]

I've personally never heard of other middle-eastern systems, but as far as cultural/socio-economic/government sytem classification is concerned, Israel is a "western" country (even if we are the poorest).

 

[arnisador]

The scimitar would be a Middle Eastern weapon, and there are particulr ways to use it, right?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Middle Eastern Martial Arts: http://www.mubai.cc/articles/art39.htm

 

[mantis]

I've personally never heard of other middle-eastern systems, but as far as cultural/socio-economic/government sytem classification is concerned, Israel is a "western" country (even if we are the poorest).

hey, this is off-topic
but since you mentioned that
what are the countries that are considered middle east?
is egypt, turkey, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan and the small countries east of turkey considered middle east?
or is it just the arabian peninsula + jordan, palestine, syria, iraq, q8, israel?
i think if syria is in the middle east Israel cannot be the poorest country. besides, you guys can sell some of your 200+ neuclear heads hahaha

 

[Loki]

Kane asked why Israel is classified as western, so I think it was on-topic.

The countries considered part of the Middle East are Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain and the Palestinian territories. Afghanistan and Pakistan are sometimes included, but there are no solid border since it's a region, not a continent.

Israel is the poorest "western" country. And we don't have nuclear warheads

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

He actually began developing it in Eastern Europe, if memory serves, then moved to Israel. Also, it's principally based on boxing and wrestling with some Judo, or at least it was in its original incarnation (again, if memory serves). So, I think Western is a fair classification. But it has now evolved, certainly, and there are indded other Middle Eastern systems...but I doubt we have enough people here knowledgeable enough to discuss them!

This is my memory, as well. It basically got put in "western" because it's non-asian, it seems.

 

[Loki]

This is my memory, as well. It basically got put in "western" because it's non-asian, it seems.

I disagree. I think it was categorized as western because Israel is considered a western country, western in the sense that it is based on concepts such as freedom, individual rights, democracy, western philosophy, advanced infrastructure, stable economy. This definition is very shaky, just so you get an idea of which sense of "western" I mean.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

I disagree. I think it was categorized as western because Israel is considered a western country, western in the sense that it is based on concepts such as freedom, individual rights, democracy, western philosophy, advanced infrastructure, stable economy. This definition is very shaky, just so you get an idea of which sense of "western" I mean.

I think you're confusing "western" with traits that are more "first world" than anything. Middle-eastern is middle-eastern, regardless of their economic practices; I think many of the notions you present are quite irrelevant, no offense.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Heres a couple questions:
- Does Israel have more than 1 art?
- If so, are they mainstream?
- Are there actual Middle-Eastern arts currently being taught?
- In the Mid-East?
- Do we have enough people to justify a seperate section?

 

[arnisador]

I disagree. I think it was categorized as western because Israel is considered a western country, western in the sense that it is based on concepts such as freedom, individual rights, democracy, western philosophy, advanced infrastructure, stable economy. This definition is very shaky, just so you get an idea of which sense of "western" I mean.

I think it was put in Western because there was an effort to add some Western art fora, like the now defunct Boxing and Fencing fora, and this seemed another promising avenue in that regard.

I'd wager I'm right about this...

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I disagree. I think it was categorized as western because Israel is considered a western country, western in the sense that it is based on concepts such as freedom, individual rights, democracy, western philosophy, advanced infrastructure, stable economy. This definition is very shaky, just so you get an idea of which sense of "western" I mean.

Good points.

While part of the mideast, would Israel be considered part of the Asian continent?

Still, Israel IS a western country in the many senses that you wrote - as well as being the birthplace of much of Western Civilization (lasting monotheism, the concept of the individual, etc.).

 

[Loki]

I think you're confusing "western" with traits that are more "first world" than anything. Middle-eastern is middle-eastern, regardless of their economic practices; I think many of the notions you present are quite irrelevant, no offense.

"Western" is often considered interchangeable with "first-world".

- Does Israel have more than 1 art?
- If so, are they mainstream?
- Are there actual Middle-Eastern arts currently being taught?
- In the Mid-East?
- Do we have enough people to justify a seperate section?

- Yes. Besides Krav Maga varieties, there's Dennis Hanover's "Hisardut".

- Hisardut is mainstream in Israel.

- I saw the article you linked to about Middle Eastern martial arts. Nothing I've ever heard of. I've never seen or heard of historical use of empty hand techniques in the ME and like the article said, weapon style weren't properly chronicled, if at all.

- Nope.

- I'd say no. The only thing that might be relevant would be to call it Israeli Martial Arts if you want to include Hisardut, but I doubt anyone here practices it.

While part of the mideast, would Israel be considered part of the Asian continent?

Technically, yes, Israel is part of the Asian continent (though while it held Sinai, it was part of Africa too). Israel does associate with Europe closely, expressed mostly in political connections and inclusion in Europe-wide events (Eurovision, sports championships, the millenium lottery).

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

"Western" is often considered interchangeable with "first-world".

Well, I get your point, no education necessary; however the categories seem to be broken down by major arts, then geographical regions. Maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. So, in this particular context, I'm thinking "western" is serving as more of a geographical identifier than a cultural identifier. Does that make sense?

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Good points.

While part of the mideast, would Israel be considered part of the Asian continent?

Still, Israel IS a western country in the many senses that you wrote - as well as being the birthplace of much of Western Civilization (lasting monotheism, the concept of the individual, etc.).

I think the birthplace of western civilization is a wee-bit of a stretch.

 

[arnisador]

however the categories seem to be broken down by major arts, then geographical regions. Maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. So, in this particular context, I'm thinking "western" is serving as more of a geographical identifier than a cultural identifier. Does that make sense?

Well...there are Karate styles that were developed in the U.S., but they're discussed in the Karate section under Japanese Martial Arts. I think lineage is the relevant factor here.

 

[Loki]

Well, I get your point, no education necessary; however the categories seem to be broken down by major arts, then geographical regions. Maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. So, in this particular context, I'm thinking "western" is serving as more of a geographical identifier than a cultural identifier. Does that make sense?

You're right, but even then it works. Russia and Israel are both west of eastern Asia.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Well...there are Karate styles that were developed in the U.S., but they're discussed in the Karate section under Japanese Martial Arts. I think lineage is the relevant factor here.

Which is why I said major arts first, then geographical areas. :asian: