Why don't Fundamentalist schools...

[rmcrobertson]

1. Teach evolution.

2. Allow jazz music.

3. Permit students to be out alone.

What up, here, is that there's a lot of kvetching about them damn secular humanists and their political correctness, their censorship, their narrow-mindedness. Well, shoe's on the other foot, now.

What are fundamentalist Christian schools so afraid of? Why do they find it necessary to regulate every aspect of their students' lives? Why should it be impossible for some of us to teach there, though their professors are welcome at any college or university run by secular humanists or Catholics?

 

[Melissa426]

What Fundamentalist Christian schools are you referring to?

Are these accredited colleges and universities?

Peace,
Melissa

p.s. Would you be interested in teaching at one of them?

 

[shesulsa]

I dunno. When I went to the Baptist and Lutheran schools I attended in my youth, most of them did teach some evolution, although is was debunked on faith-based instruction, did allow jazz, supervised students because that's their job (K - 8). As for censorship, we openly discussed racism and sexism and it's lack of place in the church and society. I suppose I got lucky. Of course, this was before the Fundamentalist Revolution.

What are fundamentalist Christian schools so afraid of?

Free thought = free mind = free spirit

Why do they find it necessary to regulate every aspect of their students' lives?

Because mind control is the game of religion and the church. It is how they are so successful at education.

Why should it be impossible for some of us to teach there, though their professors are welcome at any college or university run by secular humanists or Catholics?

Now that's a good question. They don't want anyone coming in to debunk their beliefs or challenge the teachers - they call it "confusing the children" which really means an interrupt in their thought-control-based instruction.

 

[TigerWoman]

My daughter's college last year, baptist, allowed instrumental music but no TV in the rooms. Only allowed in the commons, so they had little outside news coming in. I had to tell her via emails like not going out alone at night because there was a rapist around attacking college age girls in her area. The school also didn't allow dancing even at someone's wedding or sitting next to each other- boy/girl on one couch. Dancing is evil, sitting can get you pregnant but martial arts there was okay.

They were also required to attend chapel every morning which mostly was brainwashing in my opinion. They weren't praise and worship at all but talking up missions. Probably to get them to go on trips, she got alot of pressure on that. Of course, we would have had to fork over alot for that to happen. As it was, fines were levied on the student if he/she missed chapel more than twice in a quarter even for studying and being sick.

If you don't beat to their drum, a secular teacher wouldn't have a chance to teach there. Alot of money in those schools. BTW, I sent my daughter because she was adamant about becoming a youth pastor for years.. and they are better education, no partying. TW

 

[Kane]

1. Teach evolution.

2. Allow jazz music.

3. Permit students to be out alone.

What up, here, is that there's a lot of kvetching about them damn secular humanists and their political correctness, their censorship, their narrow-mindedness. Well, shoe's on the other foot, now.

What are fundamentalist Christian schools so afraid of? Why do they find it necessary to regulate every aspect of their students' lives? Why should it be impossible for some of us to teach there, though their professors are welcome at any college or university run by secular humanists or Catholics?

Exactly what schools are you talking about? I went to a Christian School my elementry days and they taught evolution even before public schools teach it (5th grade). Where did you get the assumption jazz is not allowed and allowstudent to be alone? Give me an example. My school which you might call a fundel. school allowed all those things.

 

[Ping898]

Um...I learned evolution and we had a jazz band at my Catholic school. I think it differs from place to place what you will see and find and be taught. But in this day and age you can have more issues trying to teach evolution at some southern public schools than at a Fund. Christian schools.

 

[loki09789]

My daughter's college last year, baptist, allowed instrumental music but no TV in the rooms. Only allowed in the commons, so they had little outside news coming in. I had to tell her via emails like not going out alone at night because there was a rapist around attacking college age girls in her area. The school also didn't allow dancing even at someone's wedding or sitting next to each other- boy/girl on one couch. Dancing is evil, sitting can get you pregnant but martial arts there was okay.

They were also required to attend chapel every morning which mostly was brainwashing in my opinion. They weren't praise and worship at all but talking up missions. Probably to get them to go on trips, she got alot of pressure on that. Of course, we would have had to fork over alot for that to happen. As it was, fines were levied on the student if he/she missed chapel more than twice in a quarter even for studying and being sick.

If you don't beat to their drum, a secular teacher wouldn't have a chance to teach there. Alot of money in those schools. BTW, I sent my daughter because she was adamant about becoming a youth pastor for years.. and they are better education, no partying. TW

Sounds 7th Day Adventist like. Honestly, it doesn't sound all that different from the monk life of old - or at least a modernization of that life style. Each learning institution has a philosophy of education. These religious based schools are well....religious in philosophy....

If you go to a 'liberal arts' college, you will find a different culture on that campus. Since you get to choose/pay for where you go to school if you don't like it don't go, simple enough.

 

[JPR]

I obviously cannot speak for every school, but I send my children to a Christian school so here is one man's reply in one situation.

1. Teach evolution.

Evolution is taught as a man made theory as to how we came into being. A Christian perspective is that this theory totally ignores / excludes God.

2. Allow jazz music.

We do not restrict music based upon style. But we examine the content (lyrics). If the lyrics contain offensive (profanity, violent) language it isn't allowed at school.

3. Permit students to be out alone.

I a not sure what you are referring to here. During the day, when at school, the children are supervised for safety / security sake. During the night, it is all up to their parents what they do.

What up, here, is that there's a lot of kvetching about them damn secular humanists and their political correctness, their censorship, their narrow-mindedness. Well, shoe's on the other foot, now.

Not really. I think a large part of the argument / debate comes from the issue that tax dollars fund the public school system. Christians have to pay taxes (well if they want to stay out of jail they do) and therefore they feel that they have some say into what is included in the curriculum. They don’t want to finance the teaching of a worldview with which they don't agree.

What are fundamentalist Christian schools so afraid of?

It isn’t a fear as much as it is several debates. 1) Is secular humanism a state supported religion? 2) Does a group have a right to push for changes in a system that they finance? 3) Does a parent have a right / responsibility to specify what their child is taught, or is a child’s education mandated by some other authority? 4) If a parent’s wishes differ from an outside authorities mandates on what is to be taught, who prevails?

Why do they find it necessary to regulate every aspect of their students' lives?

I am not sure that this is what is happening. A goal of a Christian school is to prepare the students to defend a worldview based upon a faith and belief in God, the sinfulness of man, and redemption / salvation through Jesus in an environment that maybe non-receptive or even hostile toward that belief.

Why should it be impossible for some of us to teach there, though their professors are welcome at any college or university run by secular humanists or Catholics?

One reason is that a Christian school is privately funded versus the public funding of many college and universities. When you privately fund something you can, within limits, teach what you want and exclude what you want. Since many Christian schools are accredited there are a set of standards that need to be met and testing that verifies performance.


JPR

 

[rmcrobertson]

Bob Jones University, which, "in the interests of stewardship," does not send out copies of their Student Handbook and bans jazz, country, and "progressive Christian," music; Liberty College. I'd also check Oral Roberts University. It's a right-wing, conservative Fundamentalist phenomenon.

Incidentally, to say that evolution is, "man-made," is exactly like claiming that the solar system is man-made.

Again, here's the question: why shouldn't these institutions have to abide by the same ideas of, "diversity," and "open-mindedness," that has been thrown at those of us who think that we should simply be teaching actual science in biology class, not Fundamentalist views?

 

[Kane]

Rmcrobertson, I think you made this thread to clearly show how much yourself is a Liberal Fundamentalist. No offense if I offended you but seriously. All your posts show how much you hate religion and anything else on the Right side. You even go so far as to ignore many people's post that clearly states that their religious schools are nothing like what you extreme atheistic mindset thinks.

Oh and what is this I here about openmindness? Public schools are loads more bias than Religious schools by a long shot. They don't even teach the theory of Creationism in public schools. At least religious schools teach both sides.

 

[heretic888]

Three little things:

1) I don't know about anyone else, but I was taught about the theory of evolution --- although I doubt I understood it at the time --- way before the fifth grade.

2) It is true that the theory of evolution is "man-made" in the sense that it is a mental construction created by humans to explain stuff. Y'know, kinda like... "God".

Any theory, any idea, any formulation, any thought is "man-made". Whoopdy doo.

3) The idea that the theory of evolution somehow ignores "God" (assuming there is proof for an external Deity, which there is not) or excludes "God" (assuming evolution adopts an atheistic position) is equally silly.

4) Robert can be a little zealoted about his positions, but the idea that he "hates religion" or is an "atheist" is flatly silly if you've read up on some of his posts concerning Buddhism. And, yes, contrary to popular Western opinion, Buddhism is not an "atheistic religion".

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Our conception of evolution, yes, is man-made, however the actual process of evolution itself is no more artificial than the process of digestion, or respiration, or sexual reproduction. All of these have been going on a hell of a lot longer before we came up with names or theories for them.

I'd like to know what religious schools are saying to their students about evolution, before you claim that they're teaching both sides. I'd also like to know how many different creation myths are supposed to be taught in public schools, so that we're teaching all sides--oh wait, I forgot, there's only the Christian creation myth, my bad. Hey, wait a minute...

 

[MisterMike]

Are there certain subjects that are required by states in order to have a valid GED or diploma? If so, I would assume that scientific theory like evolution would be taught in all schools capable of issuing diplomas.

I think a really neat class would be the "evolution of jazz" :2xBird2:

 

[mj_lover]

I when to a catholic elementary school. the only difference between the catholic school and the public system was the addition of religion class. Although the dutch reformed private school in my area was really bad for bias views, but its rare to have such fundamentaists (sp?)

 

[rmcrobertson]

Sorry, Sparky--for the umpteenth time!--one is more or less a socialist green. And, sory un autre fois, not an atheist.

As for the claim that there's no prob with Fundamentalist schools, let me suggest that folks scope out three of the best-known: Oral Roberts, Liberty, and Bob Jones University.

Oral Roberts' Press Releases feature a Professor of Law well-known for his attacks on, "Darwinism." There appear to be no findable mentions of inviting, say, well-known evolutionists to the campus. Incidentally, this particular professor teaches in California, at a very prestigious "liberal," university, which answers the question of whether his views are welcome among us commies pretty well. Hm.

Liberty College's Mission Statement emphasizes their Biblical mission, of course, and goes on to tie this to their espousal of, "Western culture," "democracy," and the "free market." Apparently, no alternatives need apply. Well, be darned.

Bob Jones University was the subject of a 1983 Supreme Court decision (8-1)that removed their tax exempt status. Specifically cited was that the College a) forbad jazz and interracial dating; b) admitted no African-Americans for the first five years of its history, and admitted only married African-Americans for the next five; c) took Federal money in various ways. Huh, fancy that.

One repeats: the accusation that us liberal humanists are closed-minded appears everywhere these days. In particular, this Forum has seen a repeated claim that "evolutionists," are repressive, and blind to alternatives.

So put up or shaddap: why isn't it a tad closed-minded to allow ONLY speakers who agree with your evangelical mission on campus, to make your mission entirely a matter of inculcating Christian values to support Western culture and capitalism, or to found your University on explicit, open racial discrimination--which Bob Jones has apparently never repudiated--that helped serve as a bulwark against the mongrelization of society?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Are there certain subjects that are required by states in order to have a valid GED or diploma? If so, I would assume that scientific theory like evolution would be taught in all schools capable of issuing diplomas.

That's a good question. It obviously depends on the state. Here's a site with a state by state breakdown on the requirements.

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=IN

I found this for Indiana:

http://www.inhomeeducators.org/laws/index.cfm

The teacher (parent or other) has no requirement for qualifications. This is the standard as set for educational requirements:

"Instruction equivalent to that given in the public schools," Ind. Code Ann. Sec. 20-8.1-3-34. "A school that is nonpublic, non-accredited, and not otherwise approved by the Indiana State Board of Education is not bound by any requirements set forth in IC 20 or IC 21 with regard to curriculum or the content of educational programs offered by the school." (Sec. 20-8.1-3-17.3)

This and documentation of 180 days of education are apparently all that is required. Teach what you want, essentially. Leave evolution out if you like.

The Christian kids I know are fairly well educated...except for biology and sex ed. Their history is probably somewhat jingoistic in its orientation as well...I doubt they read much of Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States," or "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. Probably haven't read "Founding Myths" by Ray Raphael, either.



Regards,


Steve

 

[kenpo tiger]

Seems to me that privately-funded schools with a specific set of backers - i.e., Fundamentalists with a stringent set of rules - smacks of "I don't like the way you play this game so I'm going to start my own with my own rules." And, the fundamentalists in every religion are equally guilty of this. TW, what you said about your daughter's Baptist school would fit right in with the ultra-Orthodox and Chasidic sects of Judaism, to name a couple. I had to check to make sure of what I was reading. Conclusion: people want what they want and will think what they want and even pay for what they want.

 

[Ping898]

Conclusion: people want what they want and will think what they want and even pay for what they want.

Sometimes you don't always have a choice. I went to catholic H.S., went there cause I knew I was going to be some sort of math or science major and the quality of education especailly in math was 10 times better at the H.S. i went too rather than my town school.
Sometimes you got to give people credit, I don't agree with many of the fundamentalist views or strict teachings. I have my own interpretations and faith. I listen to everything, but make my own choices and opinions. I am not alone in this. Just cause something keeps being beaten into your brain doesn't mean you agree with it or ever will no matter how many times you are told. Yeah you have a big group that might blindly follow what they are told, but not everyone is like that and sometimes the good you get out the shcool makes it worth putting up with the bad. And yeah my sex education may leave a bit to be desired, but I everything else I got I would put up against what anyone else learned in their non-Christian schools any day.
It isn't perfect, but not education is, and the areas I was lacking in had more to do with bad teachers than topics not being taught.

 

[michaeledward]

I think a really neat class would be the "evolution of jazz"

This is a very common class in music schools. Of course, Jazz has only evolved over the last 100 years or so. I learned all about it at Westfield State College, Westfield, MA. .... oh, yeah ... not a fundamentalist school.

BA - Music 1986
Classical Guitar

Mike

 

[shesulsa]

So put up or shaddap: why isn't it a tad closed-minded to allow ONLY speakers who agree with your evangelical mission on campus, to make your mission entirely a matter of inculcating Christian values to support Western culture and capitalism, or to found your University on explicit, open racial discrimination--which Bob Jones has apparently never repudiated--that helped serve as a bulwark against the mongrelization of society?

To address your question a little more directly, I believe it is closed-minded. However, the institutions are funded privately which means those who pay call the shots. If they don't want to expose their children to outside or free thought, it just won't happen. I know some of us might think this is hard to believe, that this is what some people want for their children. Honestly, I think it is done by parents and churches in the interests of protecting children in the only way they know how - exclusivity.