Why did you learn the hyungs that you learned? Why were some hyungs picked for certain levels and others were not? What lessons were these supposed to teach you? What DID you learn?
Why did you learn the hyungs that you learned?
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
Honest answer: That's the order the ITF and Choog Jae Nim C.S. Kim chose, I assume because it's pretty much the order Master Kim learned them under the MDK.
Bit of a more probative answer: The 3 gicho hyung teach the basics of moving and attacking. Look, cross, turn, block, step, punch, whatever. These three hyung cover all three basic stances (all 3 of them are in hyung sam bu) and a lot of the basic "You'll use these all the time" moves. They formed the foundation for my learning.
After that, the pyung ahn hyung expanded my knowledge by giving me more moves, more combinations, and breaking up the "one count, one move" rhythm, so that I started to learn how to link attacks and gain speed. Even now, I'm still learning more about them, they're so complex and richly encoded.
The palche hyung took me to a new level of complexity, once I'd achieved the red belt level. They taught me even more about pacing and waist twist. Keema hyung cho dan, learned right after palche deh, also helped me focus on snap and waist twist. Bong hyung cho dan started me on weapons techniques at this level.
Sip soo is an amazing hyung. It's complexity rightfully puts it on the cho dan level. After that, keema hyung ee dan furthered what keema hyung cho dan began. Bong hyung ee dan furthered my staff skills.
And then there's bong hyung sam dan...oy...kills my flat feet, but it feels good doing it even halfway right.
Lastly, jinte's just awesome, especially for balance. I do sip soo even better now that I have to work so hard on balance for jinte's "advance and retreat" moves.
Bit of a more probative answer: The 3 gicho hyung teach the basics of moving and attacking. Look, cross, turn, block, step, punch, whatever. These three hyung cover all three basic stances (all 3 of them are in hyung sam bu) and a lot of the basic "You'll use these all the time" moves. They formed the foundation for my learning.
After that, the pyung ahn hyung expanded my knowledge by giving me more moves, more combinations, and breaking up the "one count, one move" rhythm, so that I started to learn how to link attacks and gain speed. Even now, I'm still learning more about them, they're so complex and richly encoded.
The palche hyung took me to a new level of complexity, once I'd achieved the red belt level. They taught me even more about pacing and waist twist. Keema hyung cho dan, learned right after palche deh, also helped me focus on snap and waist twist. Bong hyung cho dan started me on weapons techniques at this level.
Sip soo is an amazing hyung. It's complexity rightfully puts it on the cho dan level. After that, keema hyung ee dan furthered what keema hyung cho dan began. Bong hyung ee dan furthered my staff skills.
And then there's bong hyung sam dan...oy...kills my flat feet, but it feels good doing it even halfway right.
Lastly, jinte's just awesome, especially for balance. I do sip soo even better now that I have to work so hard on balance for jinte's "advance and retreat" moves.
OP
OP
I've been thinking about why certain hyung are required at certain times in ones training as they approach chodan.
Here a couple of thoughts...
The Gicho hyungs are not old forms. As far as I can research, they are relatively new...tracing back to the beginnings of shotokan. These forms are meant to teach students how to do a form. They allow a teacher to show a student how to move in stances, how use their breath, how to apply dynamic tension, how to interpret basic movements, etc. These are typically taught at white belt or to beginning students.
The Pyung Ahn hyungs are older. These go back to early last century when they were created by Anko Itosu. I think the original name, Pinan, helps one understand their original purpose. Peaceful Mind. From what I have been able to research, these forms were designed in order to give a student enough self defense skills in order to have a "Peaceful Mind." These are typically taught at green belt or to intermediate students.
The Classical hyungs. Naihanchi and Bassai hyung. These katas are much older then anything studied thus far. They are complex and require years of study in order to understand. These hyungs are an introduction to a student's understandings of classical karate. These hyung are taught to red belts or advanced students.
upnorthkyosa
Here a couple of thoughts...
The Gicho hyungs are not old forms. As far as I can research, they are relatively new...tracing back to the beginnings of shotokan. These forms are meant to teach students how to do a form. They allow a teacher to show a student how to move in stances, how use their breath, how to apply dynamic tension, how to interpret basic movements, etc. These are typically taught at white belt or to beginning students.
The Pyung Ahn hyungs are older. These go back to early last century when they were created by Anko Itosu. I think the original name, Pinan, helps one understand their original purpose. Peaceful Mind. From what I have been able to research, these forms were designed in order to give a student enough self defense skills in order to have a "Peaceful Mind." These are typically taught at green belt or to intermediate students.
The Classical hyungs. Naihanchi and Bassai hyung. These katas are much older then anything studied thus far. They are complex and require years of study in order to understand. These hyungs are an introduction to a student's understandings of classical karate. These hyung are taught to red belts or advanced students.
upnorthkyosa
I agree with whats been said above. One thing ive always wondered about is the order of the Hyung after Cho dan. I think were pretty much the same as some Karate styles(Shotokan, Wado) up to Naihanchi but after that it is quite different. Kong Sang Koon is 4th dan for us but Shotokan guys learn it around first gup level and I couldnt say when they learn Sip Soo. I take it most TSD orgs Kicko Hyung are like the Shotokan ones. My school has different ones, they still have the block punch in an H pattern but we have kicks up the middle(front, round and side).
McZ
Yellow Belt
Sip Soo in Shotokan (Jitte) is ussualy for 3rd Dan
My general system of patterns is Tang Soo Do Hyungs (Ki Cho 1-3, Phyung Ahn 1-5, Bassai, Naihanchi 1-3, Ro Hai, Chil Sung 1-5, Phyung Ahn Yeon-Gyeol) and weapons in TSD (7 bong hyungs, 3 ee chul bong hyungs, 2 forms from Haedong Kumdo) i know some shotokan katas, WTF poomsae, and last i learned ITF Tuls for Tournament (Choong-Moo ang Ge-Baek)
Ki Cho introduction to forms - basic stances, basic techniques
Phyung Ahn pre intermediate forms - elements of tactique and techniques
forms from okinawaintermediate and advanced forms - tactique
Chil Sung Hyungs from begginer level to master level - chinesee movements.
Muwubu16858
Green Belt
My teacher happened to learn all 39 hyung listed in the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gam by Hwang Kee (the hyung not taught any more where taught to him by GM Oh Sae Joon) I am a Sa (4) Dan Licenced Instructor (licenced by my teacher, with my licence registered in Krea by the Moo Duk Kwan, not the Soo Bahk Do, but the Tang Soo Do. Hwang Hyun Chul's trademarks don't effect anything in korea, so those that out-rank him still have control there.)now back to hyung:
at white belt, you learn the 3 kicho hyung
after, when you are in the intermediate levels, you begin with the first 3 pyung ahns, along with San Tjin(Sam Jin).
Then at red belt you learn the last 2 pyung ahns with the 2 Pal Che forms(Dae and So)
At Cho Dan, you learn Naihanji Cho Dan and Jun Jang
At Ee Dan, only NHJ Ee Dan(since you have to now remember everything up to date that was taught)
At Sam Dan, you learn 3 hyung, NHJ Sam Dan, Sip Sam(Seisan) and Jin De(Sip Soo)
At Sa Dan is Jindo. my teacher only told me this is how it was taught to him, in this order. to see the list of the order my teacher teaches hyung, look at the post
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46588
at white belt, you learn the 3 kicho hyung
after, when you are in the intermediate levels, you begin with the first 3 pyung ahns, along with San Tjin(Sam Jin).
Then at red belt you learn the last 2 pyung ahns with the 2 Pal Che forms(Dae and So)
At Cho Dan, you learn Naihanji Cho Dan and Jun Jang
At Ee Dan, only NHJ Ee Dan(since you have to now remember everything up to date that was taught)
At Sam Dan, you learn 3 hyung, NHJ Sam Dan, Sip Sam(Seisan) and Jin De(Sip Soo)
At Sa Dan is Jindo. my teacher only told me this is how it was taught to him, in this order. to see the list of the order my teacher teaches hyung, look at the post
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46588
Master Jay S. Penfil
Blue Belt
The order of the hyung in Tang Soo Do is for the most part in this order because it's the order that Was passed on from Shotokan and it worked well so Hwang didn't change it. Some associations, and for that matter some systems require more or less forms per rank, so this will dcause the ranking requirements to vary from one to another, but the order is practically identical...
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