Why a white judo gi is better?!

[Patrick Skerry]

Please explore this site and see what you think of these reasons of why the white gi is better than the blue gi.

http://www.oishi-judo.com/BLUE%20JUDOGI.htm

Any and all intelligent and civil viewpoints are welcomed.

 

[SPQR]

Funny site I am totally new in judo and don't know much about what Dr.Kano's intentions or plans regarding the color of a judo gi were.

However, I believe I've seen a picture of Dr.Kano wearing a gi with very short sleeves and pants. How come no one wears that anymore? If a blue gi is such a big deal, why is this overlooked?

Just wondering.

 

[Andrew Green]

Well there it is right there.

By far the best arguments I've heard against the blue gi yet...

I was won over with the black light bit. He's got a point, if you want to grapple under a black light blue just won't look nearly as cool...

 

[Robert Carver]

I was going to add this to the original blue judogi thread, but it would have gotten lost in the traffic.

A LONG time ago, I read in a book that the reason why Kano Sensei came up with a standard uniform for the practice of Kodokan Judo was to remove class distinction. Prior to this, Jujutsu and other martial arts practitioners trained in what was basically their street clothes. As you might expect, how one dressed would reflect upon their station in life. So if you have a wealthy practitioner, you could expect that they would be better dressed to train than say a poor farmer. However, Kano Sensei wanted Kodokan Judo to be practiced by everyone, rich and poor, as a means of physical education and to the betterment of society. By putting everyone in the same white, non-descript uniform, you could not tell a rich Judoka from a poor one. Trainees would be judged on the merit of their training and effort, and not on what social class to which they belonged.

Based on this, I would speculate that the reason a white judogi was used, rather than a variety of colors, is because it was a plain and inexpensive cloth in with to make the dogi. As has been pointed out, the Japanese had raised the dying of cloth in indigo to a real artform. So the availability of a blue dogi (more than just about any other color) was certainly there. However, the dying process was extensive, and the resulting material was quite expensive. So if multiple colors were allowed, and a Judoka of that day wore an indigo judogi, it could be reasonably assumed that this person was wealthy. So you lose the class distinction transparency.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I was going to add this to the original blue judogi thread, but it would have gotten lost in the traffic.

A LONG time ago, I read in a book that the reason why Kano Sensei came up with a standard uniform for the practice of Kodokan Judo was to remove class distinction. Prior to this, Jujutsu and other martial arts practitioners trained in what was basically their street clothes. As you might expect, how one dressed would reflect upon their station in life. So if you have a wealthy practitioner, you could expect that they would be better dressed to train than say a poor farmer. However, Kano Sensei wanted Kodokan Judo to be practiced by everyone, rich and poor, as a means of physical education and to the betterment of society. By putting everyone in the same white, non-descript uniform, you could not tell a rich Judoka from a poor one. Trainees would be judged on the merit of their training and effort, and not on what social class to which they belonged.

Based on this, I would speculate that the reason a white judogi was used, rather than a variety of colors, is because it was a plain and inexpensive cloth in with to make the dogi. As has been pointed out, the Japanese had raised the dying of cloth in indigo to a real artform. So the availability of a blue dogi (more than just about any other color) was certainly there. However, the dying process was extensive, and the resulting material was quite expensive. So if multiple colors were allowed, and a Judoka of that day wore an indigo judogi, it could be reasonably assumed that this person was wealthy. So you lose the class distinction transparency.

So therefore if everyone today switched over to the blue judogi, the same would hold true - no class issues, just people training in uniform. Great idea.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

So therefore if everyone today switched over to the blue judogi, the same would hold true - no class issues, just people training in uniform. Great idea.

Yes, Dr. Kano hit the nail on the head, (this applies to judo) the white judo gi is a very good idea. The Japanese were, and still are, a class society.

Dr. Kano was a teacher of the elite, he instructed members of the Japanese royalty, whose children considered this PhD renaisance man equivalent to one of their butlers. And treated him as such, at least according to Dr. Kano's autobiography. This first hand experience at snobbery made him consider the class distinction to be suspect, even in his day. Dr. Kano was obviously a man of vision and very ahead of his time - a true innovator and genius on the level with DaVinci, Newton, Liebnitz, Godel, Freud, and Planck!

The white judo gi was not only a product of such empirical reasoning as stated above by sensei Carver, but a spiritual one as well. Dr. Kano was also a religious man, and saw judo as a way of spiritual, as well as 'character' development, as so do I. (Another reason why judo is not a sport, but this view also belongs on a different thread.) The blue gi is such a clumsy abomination imposed by such unenlightened minds.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

Well there it is right there.

By far the best arguments I've heard against the blue gi yet...

I was won over with the black light bit. He's got a point, if you want to grapple under a black light blue just won't look nearly as cool...

I liked the view that if the referree needs a blue gi to tell the difference, then the blue gi won't help.

And if the spectators need a blue gi to help tell the difference, also then the blue gi won't help.

Very insightful (just like me!)

 

[Feisty Mouse]

The blue gi is such an abomination imposed by such unenlightened minds.

:lol:

I know, I know....

:feedtroll

 

[Robert Carver]

Also remember the time period we are talking about. Japan was just entering the "modern era" and was making an attempt throughout their culture to throw off their class distinction in all areas. The abolishment of the warrior class (bushi) was just part of that process. However, those that had become used to their higher class distinction went out begrudgingly (sp?). Kano Sensei's desire to blur the lines of class within the Kodokan was not only in keeping with his own philosophy that "judo was for everyone", but also followed the trend in the new modern Japan.

I don't necessarily have a huge problem with the blue judogi for international competition, although I would prefer that the IJF had not bothered with it. I do however, think that the reasoning why Kano Sensei chose a simple white gi is just as valid today, as it was in his. It does remove distinction and distraction in the dojo. With just a plain ol white judogi, we are all the same, just judoka training in the way.

 

[bignick]

a top ten list with 25 items?

how does this thread differ from the blue gi thread...?

 

[Patrick Skerry]

Yes, the Meiji Restoration. But I have no problem with multi-colored gi's when doing a book on judo throws, but that's it.

Also remember the time period we are talking about. Japan was just entering the "modern era" and was making an attempt throughout their culture to throw off their class distinction in all areas. The abolishment of the warrior class (bushi) was just part of that process. However, those that had become used to their higher class distinction went out begrudgingly (sp?). Kano Sensei's desire to blur the lines of class within the Kodokan was not only in keeping with his own philosophy that "judo was for everyone", but also followed the trend in the new modern Japan.

I don't necessarily have a huge problem with the blue judogi for international competition, although I would prefer that the IJF had not bothered with it. I do however, think that the reasoning why Kano Sensei chose a simple white gi is just as valid today, as it was in his. It does remove distinction and distraction in the dojo. With just a plain ol white judogi, we are all the same, just judoka training in the way.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

a top ten list with 25 items?

how does this thread differ from the blue gi thread...?

If you can't figure that out, you'll never know!

 

[Andrew Green]

But isn't there a littl conflict with that reasoning and the "Who makes a good gi?" thread.

If it is to blur the lines and keep rich and poor dressed the same then the idea of a $300 luxury gi imported from Japan is more of an abomination then seperate colours for competitors at an international level.

This is not something unique to Judo. Wrestling does the same thing, except it is red and black. If you watch boxing the boxers are always identified by the colour of their shorts.

If you want to air a sport on tv the people at hom watching on a 13" black and white television need to be able to tell who is who as well. Refs shouldn't have much trouble, they are right there. Spectators in attendance shouldn't either, depending on how close they are to the action. But to really promote the sport to a international audience you need television coverage, which means adaptations to make it work for tv might be necessary. This was not an issue in Kano's day, so there was no need for this.

 

[bignick]

If you can't figure that out, you'll never know!

well...how can you expect to convince people of your position when you won't even answer what your position is...and i know your position the "blue gi that is tearing judo apart"...i want to know how this differs from the blue gi thread...it seems to be the same thread...with a different title...and instead of you bashing the blue gi...you're praising the white...same idea...different angle...well...i can't wait for the thread to fill up with nonsensical bashing of the blue gi and inane quotes like, "Everyone knows Kano was critical of Mifune's judo"

 

[Patrick Skerry]

A conflict which was only brought about by the IJF attempt to twist judo into a sport, beginning with the inane blue gi!

But isn't there a littl conflict with that reasoning and the "Who makes a good gi?" thread.

If it is to blur the lines and keep rich and poor dressed the same then the idea of a $300 luxury gi imported from Japan is more of an abomination then seperate colours for competitors at an international level.

This is not something unique to Judo. Wrestling does the same thing, except it is red and black. If you watch boxing the boxers are always identified by the colour of their shorts.

If you want to air a sport on tv the people at hom watching on a 13" black and white television need to be able to tell who is who as well. Refs shouldn't have much trouble, they are right there. Spectators in attendance shouldn't either, depending on how close they are to the action. But to really promote the sport to a international audience you need television coverage, which means adaptations to make it work for tv might be necessary. This was not an issue in Kano's day, so there was no need for this.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

:soapbox: ranting about the same thing... :deadhorse over and over again in different threads...


hey guys....


:feedtroll

 

[Patrick Skerry]

well...how can you expect to convince people of your position when you won't even answer what your position is...and i know your position the "blue gi that is tearing judo apart"...i want to know how this differs from the blue gi thread...it seems to be the same thread...with a different title...and instead of you bashing the blue gi...you're praising the white...same idea...different angle...well...i can't wait for the thread to fill up with nonsensical bashing of the blue gi and inane quotes like, "Everyone knows Kano was critical of Mifune's judo"

Just read this ten times (pretend your doing uchi-komi):

http://www.oishi-judo.com/BLUE%20JUDOGI.htm

now, I expect a ten page book report with footnotes, endnotes, and bibliography on why the white gi rules!

 

[bignick]

Just read this ten times (pretend your doing uchi-komi):

http://www.oishi-judo.com/BLUE%20JUDOGI.htm

now, I expect a ten page book report with footnotes, endnotes, and bibliography on why the white gi rules!

and i expect the same from you on how Kano criticized Mifune




sorry feisty

 

[Patrick Skerry]

and i expect the same from you on how Kano criticized Mifune




sorry feisty

Believe it or not, I am working on it.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

bignick, I know it's hard not to!