Why 33 rounds makes sense in a defensive weapon

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,278
Reaction score
1,036
Location
In Pain
That didn't answer the question, unless you are answering by omisson?


They are like little red sports cars.
Compensating for something, utterly useless and fun to have.


Let me rephrase that: not needed...

Other than that. <shrug>

I just don't see the argument that if civilians had those things for SD so and so would not have happened. I think guns as SD are a myth. Only a small percentage of the population (again, NOT in the armed forces or cops) have a marginal need for them.
Guns are dangerous. Not because they go boom and kill stuff, but because the image they project.
There is no such thing as a safe gun.
You have a loaded gun you can shoot yourself in the foot, you have an unloaded one you might get shot by some scaredy cat.
You carry one with you you feel protected, even if you are not trained or qualified. That might lead you to doing things you would not do if you didn't count on the 'protective' qualities of your gun.

The Arizona shooter should serve as an inspiration to rethink if our preconcieved notions are actually correct. Should he be made the poster boy for outlawing those mags? No. But he is the example of why those things really have no business in the hands of regular people.

So if you really want to have one (or two, or many) of these things, register for them like you do for owning a gun. And even that does not prevent the crazies from snapping.

Do I think they need to be outlawed you asked.
Ok, I tell you: I honestly seriously don't care.
but it does not keep me from laughing my behind off reading those silly arguments for them. Right out of the scripts of bad movies and NRA pamphlets.

(a side note: I don't mind the negative rep, but at least who ever you are, have the guts to sign it, considering this is an MA forum I have never seen this many cowards.)
 

Bruno@MT

Senior Master
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
3,399
Reaction score
74
Yes. But if you are shooting what is "normal" for you that is what you are shooting. Think of it like saying "doesn't you taijutsu change because you have a 6 foot pole in your arms" well, yeah it's probably different than if you didn't have the 6 foot pole in your arms, UNLESS you do your Taijutsu with a 6 foot pole in your arms in which case Taijutsu is taijutsu, if that makes sense.

Yes, I see. If you are always using a 30 bullet magazine, then it is not an issue.

Isn't such a long magazine hard to carry concealed?
I was told that a concealed weapon should be actually concealed (not readily apparent).
Carrying it on you with that added stump sticking out is going to be hard to hide I guess.
 
OP
Big Don

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
188
Location
Sanger CA
Yes, I see. If you are always using a 30 bullet magazine, then it is not an issue.

Isn't such a long magazine hard to carry concealed?
I was told that a concealed weapon should be actually concealed (not readily apparent).
Carrying it on you with that added stump sticking out is going to be hard to hide I guess.
Very. Somewhere up the thread it was mentioned that the Tucson shooter had bundled something around it.
 

jetboatdeath

Blue Belt
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
253
Reaction score
9
Right out of the scripts of bad movies and NRA pamphlets.

LOL if you only knew what I think of the NRA...
Or what they think of me for that matter..

You still seem to be among the people who don't understand that a hi cap mag is not going to make you go nuts.
It is the same thing as a pen, in fact put a pen and a hi cap mag on the desk next to each other and see what one jumps up and kills you first..don't hold your breath however..
I could kill someone just fine with a 16oz claw hammer, so we must outlaw 20oz claw hammers?
That is your line of logic here.

As I said before and it has been proven by the dodging of the questions asked of you this is pointless you can not see simple logic...
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,278
Reaction score
1,036
Location
In Pain
LOL if you only knew what I think of the NRA...
Or what they think of me for that matter..

You still seem to be among the people who don't understand that a hi cap mag is not going to make you go nuts.
It is the same thing as a pen, in fact put a pen and a hi cap mag on the desk next to each other and see what one jumps up and kills you first..don't hold your breath however..
I could kill someone just fine with a 16oz claw hammer, so we must outlaw 20oz claw hammers?
That is your line of logic here.

As I said before and it has been proven by the dodging of the questions asked of you this is pointless you can not see simple logic...


Ignorance is bliss, but it should hurt as well...

Try hammering a nail in with a gun...

yes, you can be a serial killer with a claw hammer, but I don't think you can off 6 people in a public space with it.

And as far as I see it, there is NO logic to this question because the arguments on both sides of the issue are pointless and stupid.

(FWIW, when I was in middle school we had a very popular student teacher who killed a girl our age with a hammer...)
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,400
Reaction score
1,055
I think there is not need for them.
Youd be wrong then. During a shooting situation with the stress involved even highly trained shooters can only expect a 30% hit rate. Now lets look at a shooting situation Ive been in. I shot a small man about 5'6 135 pounds in his 40's not high only slightly drunk. I shot him 5 times all 5 hit center mass in his heart. He still was able to drop his gun stare at me for about 5 seconds turn and walk from his kitchen into his living room before he fell dead. Had he not dropped the gun I would have fired more then 5 rounds but thats all I needed to end the threat. Had he decided to keep fighting he had 15 to 20 seconds of fight time in him from my first shot alot of bad stuff can happen to me in that time. I also shoot monthly at a minimum and sometimes weekly so I was 100% in that shooting but I was also only 7 to 9 feet away. I as an officer carry 46 rounds on me on my belt and in my gun and another 200 in my car.
So now put the gun in my wifes hands in our home and an armed intruder enters our house. She had a standard 15 round mag she shoots and out of 15 rounds only hits the guy 2 or 4 times now hes pissed and still coming. Now she need to try to find another mag and reload and shoot somemore or if she had 15 more rounds in the gun she can just keep shooting until he gets the point and dies or runs away. I see a HUGE need for 30+ round mags for home defense.
 

David43515

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,383
Reaction score
50
Location
Sapporo, Japan
I think guns as SD are a myth. Only a small percentage of the population (again, NOT in the armed forces or cops) have a marginal need for them.
Guns are dangerous. Not because they go boom and kill stuff, but because the image they project.
There is no such thing as a safe gun.

I realize that the main topic of this thread is high capacity magazines, not firearms themselves. So let me appologize for taking a small aside here. And if you think I`m taking what you say too far out of context please let me know.

I would modify what you said to "there is no such thing as a 100% safe gun". Just like there`s no such thing as a 100% safe car, swimming pool, power tool or BBQ grill. They are all very dangerous if used irresponsibly.

But are you aware that it`s been shown time and time again that in the USA firearms are used far more often to stop a crime in progress than to commit crimes? Or that medical records show you`re far more likely to survive being shot with a handgun than you are to survive being stabbed with a knife?

I suppose I can see your point (if I understand it correctly) that a gun can 'project an image' to the person carrying it, making them over confident and causing them to take risks they otherwise wouldn`t. But your comment about images also reminds me of the time I took a small pen knife out of my pocket in class to open a box of textbooks at my first Japanese JR high. The kids freaked out about the 2" blade and said "You could kill someone with that". When I asked them how many of thier mothers had a kitchen knife 10" or longer at home every one of them raise thier hands. None of them were afraid of their mothers, but what I saw as a tool for opening boxes, cutting tape and slicing fruit had an image to them as a gangster`s weapon. Objects are just that. They have no feelings, or intentions for either good or evil.
 

David43515

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,383
Reaction score
50
Location
Sapporo, Japan
As I get older I find myself becoming more and more a Libertarian. It really annoys me when someone tries to tell me what I should be allowed to have based on my needs. Nobody "needs" top of the line digital stereo equipment, cars that go over the posted speed limits, or Hi Def TVs. They don`t interest me in the least, but if other people want them I say go for it. I would never pay 4-5$ for a cup of coffee or try to force anyone else to do so., but I wouldn`t try to outlaw them because I don`t see the need for them either. Just stikes me as an odd type of mind that would feel they had to.
 

elder999

El Oso de Dios!
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
9,909
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
Try hammering a nail in with a gun...

Use an M-1 for that sometimes....hehehe.


yes, you can be a serial killer with a claw hammer, but I don't think you can off 6 people in a public space with it.

Probably just a little bit slower than he did with a pistol, if they're just standing there like that, anyway.....

What really gets me is how the price of those "happy sticks" went up as soon as the shooting occured. They're really hard to get, now, for fear of the government banning them,...

Never mind that my XD holds 21 rounds of 9mm.Or that my .45s hold 15 rounds.Or that if it weren't such a silly piece of ****, I could get a MAC-10 that holds 30 rounds of .45 ammo. We must get rid of 30 round magazines, because they're simply unreasonable.....:lfao:
 

5-0 Kenpo

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
1,540
Reaction score
60
They are like little red sports cars.
Compensating for something, utterly useless and fun to have.


Let me rephrase that: not needed...

Other than that. <shrug>

For which you have nothing to back up your claim. Hard to take that seriously, especially in light of my experiential evidence.

I just don't see the argument that if civilians had those things for SD so and so would not have happened.

I don't think anyone has made that argument.

I think guns as SD are a myth. Only a small percentage of the population (again, NOT in the armed forces or cops) have a marginal need for them.

Well, 1.5 million people per year in the U.S. is a small percentage. Unless you consider the fact that it's not always the same 1.5 million people per year who use firearms in self-defense, then the number rises dramatically.

But you go ahead and ignore the facts if it suits you.

Guns are dangerous.

Guns are not dangerous. People are dangerous.

Not because they go boom and kill stuff, but because the image they project.

That makes no sense. What image are you refering to. I see them as a useful tool designed to perform a specific function.

There is no such thing as a safe gun.

Unless it is mechanically unsound, a gun is a very safe object. It is people that are unsafe.

You have a loaded gun you can shoot yourself in the foot, you have an unloaded one you might get shot by some scaredy cat.

Again with the what if game. I'll go with it. You have a loaded gun you can defend yourself from an intruder bent on doing harm to you or your family. You have an unloaded gun.... well, you're just a victim then....

You carry one with you you feel protected, even if you are not trained or qualified. That might lead you to doing things you would not do if you didn't count on the 'protective' qualities of your gun.

Yes, because we have seen a plethora of untrained civilian CCW carries across the states that allow it to go out and shoot or kill swaths of people.

Oh, wait, that doesn't happen....

The Arizona shooter should serve as an inspiration to rethink if our preconcieved notions are actually correct. Should he be made the poster boy for outlawing those mags? No. But he is the example of why those things really have no business in the hands of regular people.

And they guy who uses his SUV to kill a group of peole should serve as an example as to why SUVs should be outlawed. This is a straw man argument.

So if you really want to have one (or two, or many) of these things, register for them like you do for owning a gun. And even that does not prevent the crazies from snapping.

So register something that you admit will do nothing to solve the problem for which you think registering them might serve. That makes not sense.

Do I think they need to be outlawed you asked.
Ok, I tell you: I honestly seriously don't care.

Oh, so then this was just an interesting thought experiment for you.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
540
Location
NH
As I get older I find myself becoming more and more a Libertarian. It really annoys me when someone tries to tell me what I should be allowed to have based on my needs. Nobody "needs" top of the line digital stereo equipment, cars that go over the posted speed limits, or Hi Def TVs. They don`t interest me in the least, but if other people want them I say go for it. I would never pay 4-5$ for a cup of coffee or try to force anyone else to do so., but I wouldn`t try to outlaw them because I don`t see the need for them either. Just stikes me as an odd type of mind that would feel they had to.

But its a fairly common sentiment, isn't it? You don't NEED an SUV. You don't NEED to get a tattoo. You don't NEED to eat meat. You don't NEED those medications. Its a combative form of speech, designed to elicit a response.
 

Archangel M

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
154
There are many situations out there where you may very well NEED a gun. Thats the thing the grabbers like to ignore.

I still find it interesting that the cops are arguing FOR gun ownership and its need against non-LE here. I thought that WE were the gun grabbing...only WE deserve guns...jackboots in the room. :)
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
540
Location
NH
There are many situations out there where you may very well NEED a gun. Thats the thing the grabbers like to ignore.

I still find it interesting that the cops are arguing FOR gun ownership and its need against non-LE here. I thought that WE were the gun grabbing...only WE deserve guns...jackboots in the room. :)

You folks in LE are among the biggest allies we non-LE have. Your ability to get -- and keep! -- a job depends on your ability to obtain and then maintain a license to carry, does it not? I've heard stories the City of Boston (right is essentially denied) that make me cringe.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,400
Reaction score
1,055
There are many situations out there where you may very well NEED a gun. Thats the thing the grabbers like to ignore.

I still find it interesting that the cops are arguing FOR gun ownership and its need against non-LE here. I thought that WE were the gun grabbing...only WE deserve guns...jackboots in the room. :)
Its because WE know 9 out of 10 times WE show up too late to help THEM when they need us, so they better be ready to help THEMSELVES. But dont worry non-gun owners I will do my best to be compassionate when I deliver the notification to your family and ill try really hard to catch the person that did it to YOU.
Im for everyone to have guns, Im for everyone to carry guns in public, I dont even want them concealed, wear them open and proud so the bad guys know which people not to attack.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,400
Reaction score
1,055
You folks in LE are among the biggest allies we non-LE have. Your ability to get -- and keep! -- a job depends on your ability to obtain and then maintain a license to carry, does it not? I've heard stories the City of Boston (right is essentially denied) that make me cringe.
Thats whats kinda funny in some anti-gun states there are less requirements to become a cop then to apply for a concealed carry permit.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
540
Location
NH
Thats whats kinda funny in some anti-gun states there are less requirements to become a cop then to apply for a concealed carry permit.

Its even stranger when Mayor Menino wrings his hands in lament of the the continued exodus of the middle class from the city. Give ordinary folks enough reason to not live there and...
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,400
Reaction score
1,055
Its even stranger when Mayor Menino wrings his hands in lament of the the continued exodus of the middle class from the city. Give ordinary folks enough reason to not live there and...
Its sad I have not been to Boston in years but I always thought it was a cool city
 
Top