who gave Juchnik his title?
Who's Who In Kosho Ryu
- Thread starter mitose
- Start date
KenpoDave
3rd Black Belt
I believe that it was Wally Jay and Thomas Young who signed off on his last promotion.
wasn't thomas young just a shodan in kosho-ryu?
kosho
3rd Black Belt
wasn't thomas young just a shodan in kosho-ryu?
With this said. Most of the Great Teachers of the past are all self Promoted. Chow, Got his Shodan from Young Sensei. so who made him a 10 degree then??? And so on. Parker was seen as a 10th degree
but if chow never self promoted then parker is only a 1st degree and so on. any one who is in kempo/kenpo under and this is just a few names of top teachers. are and can only be up to 1st degree black belts. all of the people named are top shelf teachers and a lot of the student that came from these men are also top teachers so this is something that can go back and forth over.
G>M> William K.S. Chow
Master Sensei
Ray Arquilla
Iron Dragon Kosho Shorei Kenpo Karate
Hanshi
Bruce Juchnik
Kosho Ryu Kempo
Hanshi
Thomas Young
Senior Grandmaster
Edmund K. Parker
Professor
Walter Godin
Sijo
Adriano Emperado
Grandmaster
Al Tracy
Grandmaster
Rick Alemany
Professor
Eugene Sedeño
Great
Grandmaster
Thomas Mitose
Kosho Ryu Kenpo Karate
Kosho
With this said. Most of the Great Teachers of the past are all self Promoted. Chow, Got his Shodan from Young Sensei. so who made him a 10 degree then??? And so on. Parker was seen as a 10th degree
but if chow never self promoted then parker is only a 1st degree and so on. any one who is in kempo/kenpo under and this is just a few names of top teachers. are and can only be up to 1st degree black belts. all of the people named are top shelf teachers and a lot of the student that came from these men are also top teachers so this is something that can go back and forth over.
G>M> William K.S. Chow
Master Sensei
Ray Arquilla
Iron Dragon Kosho Shorei Kenpo Karate
Hanshi
Bruce Juchnik
Kosho Ryu Kempo
Hanshi
Thomas Young
Senior Grandmaster
Edmund K. Parker
Professor
Walter Godin
Sijo
Adriano Emperado
Grandmaster
Al Tracy
Grandmaster
Rick Alemany
Professor
Eugene Sedeño
Great
Grandmaster
Thomas Mitose
Kosho Ryu Kenpo Karate
Kosho
KenpoDave
3rd Black Belt
I don't know what he ended up being. He was left in charge of the Official Self Defense Club when Mitose left Hawaii, so he was the ranking Kosho guy there. I am not sure Wally Jay has any ranking in Kosho Ryu, but his connection with John Chow Hoon and Okazaki places him in a category that Juchnik apparently thought important.
Perhaps "signed off on" was not the right phrase. How about "recognized?"
Kosho Gakkusei
Blue Belt
When Great Grandmster James Mitose awarded Bruce Juchnik with Menkyo Kaiden (full mastery of the MA) and Inka Shomei (spiritual authority/approval in zen buddhism), in Late 1979, arguably, Juchnik had the power to choose his title and organize the system as he saw/sees fit.
With this certification from Mitose, Juchnik could have declared himself the Soke of Kosho Ryu upon Mitose's demise but chose not to. Rather, the original intent was to have Thomas Mitose study with Bruce and assume the role of Great Grandmaster, hence why Bruce chose the Hanshi (root master) title instead. Unfortunately, Tom only studied with Bruce for a short time and decided to go on his own. I think Bruce is still hopeful that Tom would return to complete his training.
When choosing a grading system Juchnik Hanshi chose the more conventional modern Kyu/Dan system rather than the older Shoden, Chuden, & Okuden. My guess is that the modern system was chosen because the system is now primarily taught in the US and that Mitose Himself used a Kyu/Dan grading system. The higest grade chosen was 7th Dan as Juchnik made honorary titles (Shihan, Kyoshi, Renshi, Hanshi) seperate from martial rank.
In Kosho Shorei Ryu, the title of Hanshi is also given to any of Mitose's original Black Belts who get involved in the Kai. Such as Thomas Young Hanshi & Paul Yamaguchi Hanshi.
I hope this helps.
_Don Flatt
that question was supposed to be a joke.My grandpa didn't sign his certificate,so he has a forgery and we all know who signed it
In short all who has a certificate from Bruce stops there,it's worthless
in the Kosho world...just read my grandpa's Will............
kosho
3rd Black Belt
that question was supposed to be a joke.My grandpa didn't sign his certificate,so he has a forgery and we all know who signed it
In short all who has a certificate from Bruce stops there,it's worthless
in the Kosho world...just read my grandpa's Will............
A cert: or a paper does not make the person the man.
Its the Info that person has. Hanshi juchnik has a ton of Info in a lot of areas and systems of martial arts.
instead of attacking him, you should thank him for spreading your family art. And if what I am teaching is not kosho ryu kempo then Bruce Juchnik
Hanshi is great at faking a Martial art. and so are the others out there.
I have my Flag in the Juchnik camp until I see and feel different. Hanshi Juchnik is the Man.
Kosho
In short all who has a certificate from Bruce stops there,it's worthless
in the Kosho world...just read my grandpa's Will............
A cert: or a paper does not make the person the man.
Its the Info that person has. Hanshi juchnik has a ton of Info in a lot of areas and systems of martial arts.
instead of attacking him, you should thank him for spreading your family art. And if what I am teaching is not kosho ryu kempo then Bruce Juchnik
Hanshi is great at faking a Martial art. and so are the others out there.
I have my Flag in the Juchnik camp until I see and feel different. Hanshi Juchnik is the Man.
Kosho
I am not attacking him.But the things he says are very dishonest.
I tried to contact him but no response.Spreading my families art?
sure if what he was teaching and saying was true.
You can fly your flag in his camp because you don't know any other way
Kosho Gakkusei
Blue Belt
Don't you know that when you use the word "but" it negates what is said before it? In essence your statement reflects that you are attacking him and seeking to justify it.
It seems to me as though you are attacking him and he's not even here to defend himself.
If you disagree with Bruce Juchnik and think he's dishonest why don't you demonstrate what your families art is about? The attitude and tone your taking is not impressing me and trying to assert yourself as a martial god does even less to impress.
Live at a higher level, show some class and prove that you're the real deal by your humility and knowledge. That would be better than coming onto a message board and screaming, "LIAR!! LIAR!!!" People won't listen to you based on that. Earn our respect, share some insight. Post some videos. If you're the real deal it'll show and we'll all benefit.
People who just try to claim they're something great and fail to back it up just drift into obscurity. So don't waste time trying to tear someone down become great by building others up.
Repectfully,
_Don Flatt
I am not trying to earn respect here.
When you are out here,look me up and we can get together and talk face to face and get a work out in.Listen to what we have to say.....
you get all the stuff third party as so do I.
Just tired of getting disrespected by the seeds Bruce planted.To me thats being dishonest.
maybe someone should lock this thread
kosho
3rd Black Belt
Well,
Maybe are paths will cross and I look forward to meeting you some day. I will tell you one thing. sence meeting John Evans, Bruce Juchnik, Pat kelly and many others in the Kia, My mind has opened as far as Martial arts go.
I am a better teacher and student for this. I do have a open mind and will never close any doors that I see as helpful.
Best to you,
Kosho
Maybe are paths will cross and I look forward to meeting you some day. I will tell you one thing. sence meeting John Evans, Bruce Juchnik, Pat kelly and many others in the Kia, My mind has opened as far as Martial arts go.
I am a better teacher and student for this. I do have a open mind and will never close any doors that I see as helpful.
Best to you,
Kosho
I was there when James Mitose refused to sign the Certificates that Bruce Jucknik and Arnold Golub presented to him. " Soke " means the inheritor of a system thru a direct bloodline. Bloodline not blood transfusion!
I still see the look of anger and frustration on their faces as they walked out of the prison, holding their manilla Envelope containing the certificates they were unsuccessful at having signed. James Mitose at the time was already frail, could barely see and He could barely speak English. What is it that Juchnik was learning from this weary soul? It is a crime to use and abuse the Elderly..........
You are absolutely correct when stating that a Certificate does not make the person the Man...........What does matter is what knowledge is held by the claimer and who is doing the claiming.
I still see the look of anger and frustration on their faces as they walked out of the prison, holding their manilla Envelope containing the certificates they were unsuccessful at having signed. James Mitose at the time was already frail, could barely see and He could barely speak English. What is it that Juchnik was learning from this weary soul? It is a crime to use and abuse the Elderly..........
You are absolutely correct when stating that a Certificate does not make the person the Man...........What does matter is what knowledge is held by the claimer and who is doing the claiming.
Bay Area's Best
White Belt
Who's the real Kosho Ryu practitioners?
Kosho Gakkusei
Blue Belt
How about attacking/accusing someone behind their back?
You still haven't answered my questions on the Kosho Ryu? thread.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=857091#post857091
_Don Flatt
KenpoDave
3rd Black Belt
I would surmise that this is Jeff Wong, a friend of Thomas Mitose's since the '60s.
Kosho Gakkusei
Blue Belt
Then why are you here? If you don't want to cultivate mutual respect, how are we supposed to have a mature dialog??
In that case, it seems that the only reason you've entered our community is to badmouth another Martial Artist over a lineage dispute. The events in question are over 30 years old. There's no reason you can't make your counter claims in a mature and respectful manner.
This online community is not about "Fraud Busting". There are other online forums that cater to the lowest common denominator and thrive on bad-mouthing arts and artists. This community is about the cultivation of the arts by civil interchange among martial artists. There's alot of great representatives of their respective arts on this site and some high ranking artists who put their knowledge to productive use in the community.
You've come here with a well known name but a name will only get you so far on your name. We all await some substance from you. All you've said about your Grandfather's Art is that it's hard hitting. If that's all you think it is then I highly doubt you know your Grandfather's art. I say that based on what I've read in your Grandfather's books not based on my studies under Bruce Juchnik. Hitting hard doesn't impress me. I know and work with some guys who hit real hard and they have no training. If there's more to that to your art then tell/show us. There are plenty of people who'd be interested in hearing/seeing what you have to share in that case.
So, we all await some substance but if all you have to share is slander then you and your students should take it somewhere else.
_Don Flatt
As previously stated my name is S. Wong. I did not say that I was taught by James Mitose. I have been training under his Son, Thomas Mitose, Soke since 1969.
I did know his father "James Mitose" and visited him in Prison very often and accompanied "Soke" to Los Angeles for training under his father. I was there when James Mitose refused to sign the certificates for Bruce and Arnie.
Who am I ? Do you mean my Credits and Credentials in Martial Arts? or was that meant sarcastically?
I have been training since 1969. I am Listed in The Encyclopedia of Martial Arts among the Top 5 Women Fights in the Nation. I have trained with and as long as The greats of Martial Arts Skip Mullens, Joe Lewis, Benny Urquidez, John Nativida, Frank Ramirez, Phil Cornin, Bill Wallace, Al Dacoscos to name a few. I have competed against and beaten great women fighters such as Janice Miller, Marion Bermudas, Mary Starks, Karen Shepard, Malia Dacoscos and so on.... I started my traing in San Francisco and presently train and teach in Sacramento and Concord Ca.
In reference to having to show you something of substance regarding Mitose's Art.......That is a bit disrespectful. James Mitose is who Bruce Jucknik is Representing after all.
As far as asking Who I am on the same page Who are you?
I have noticed in your dialog you find it necessary to talk down to people as if everyone else is ignorant on every subject.
I have to say that as long as I have known and studied under "Soke" he has always remained in the background. While his students are traveling and competing around the world and always taking home the Trophies he remains in the background ...quietly. He has always said that we are not to exploit the Art for Monetary Gain.........We are to keep the Art close to our Heart....
Knowledge of the Art is what gives us power....
Sokes mother, James Mitose's wife told Sokes daughter, This Art is your Grandpa's it remains your secret. In other words ONLY THE MITOSE FAMILY
REALLY KNOWS AND THEY WEREN'T TALKING UNTIL NOW......
Soon you will be amazed at what is being brought out to the public...............
I did know his father "James Mitose" and visited him in Prison very often and accompanied "Soke" to Los Angeles for training under his father. I was there when James Mitose refused to sign the certificates for Bruce and Arnie.
Who am I ? Do you mean my Credits and Credentials in Martial Arts? or was that meant sarcastically?
I have been training since 1969. I am Listed in The Encyclopedia of Martial Arts among the Top 5 Women Fights in the Nation. I have trained with and as long as The greats of Martial Arts Skip Mullens, Joe Lewis, Benny Urquidez, John Nativida, Frank Ramirez, Phil Cornin, Bill Wallace, Al Dacoscos to name a few. I have competed against and beaten great women fighters such as Janice Miller, Marion Bermudas, Mary Starks, Karen Shepard, Malia Dacoscos and so on.... I started my traing in San Francisco and presently train and teach in Sacramento and Concord Ca.
In reference to having to show you something of substance regarding Mitose's Art.......That is a bit disrespectful. James Mitose is who Bruce Jucknik is Representing after all.
As far as asking Who I am on the same page Who are you?
I have noticed in your dialog you find it necessary to talk down to people as if everyone else is ignorant on every subject.
I have to say that as long as I have known and studied under "Soke" he has always remained in the background. While his students are traveling and competing around the world and always taking home the Trophies he remains in the background ...quietly. He has always said that we are not to exploit the Art for Monetary Gain.........We are to keep the Art close to our Heart....
Knowledge of the Art is what gives us power....
Sokes mother, James Mitose's wife told Sokes daughter, This Art is your Grandpa's it remains your secret. In other words ONLY THE MITOSE FAMILY
REALLY KNOWS AND THEY WEREN'T TALKING UNTIL NOW......
Soon you will be amazed at what is being brought out to the public...............
