Who will impact EPAK the most in the next 10 years?

[kenpoworks]

I might suggest though that you make this it's own thread as it raises good questions and deserves it's own consideration And because it's markedly different than the aim of This thread. If you do, please let me know where you placed it.

I agree with Brother John, it's your baby Robert and it does deserve a thread of it's own " so long as we can keep positive and polite ", I feel that it will benefit the Kenpo community to address all the points you have raised.
Richard

 

[KenpoDave]

I haven't really kept up with this thread too much, only to note that it is still rolling pretty good.

Based on that, and excuse me if someone else already suggested it, but...has anyone considered that the internet might have the greatest impact on EPAK or MA in general over the next 10 years?

Look at the caliber of people and variety of opinions expressed here on a daily basis. It is difficult to bring this much community and diversity together ever, much less daily.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I haven't really kept up with this thread too much, only to note that it is still rolling pretty good.

Based on that, and excuse me if someone else already suggested it, but...has anyone considered that the internet might have the greatest impact on EPAK or MA in general over the next 10 years?

Look at the caliber of people and variety of opinions expressed here on a daily basis. It is difficult to bring this much community and diversity together ever, much less daily.

While we may not be impacting Kenpo on "da street", we are impacting Kenpo on "da web".

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

1. It's a fake argument because, a) it gets thrown at guys like me every time we disagree with certain shibboleths; b) it's a fake argument because the, "evolution," folks never really seem to be doing anything that's actually evolutionary; c) it's a fake argument because the, "tradition," guys actually evolve things all the time if they're any good; d) it's a fake argument because it represents a fundamental misapprehension of the radical nature of kenpo; e) it's a fake argument because guys like me don't have any quarrel with the notion of genuine development of any martial arts system.

2. Better approaches: a) what's the relationship between "personal," evolution and the alteration of the kenpo system; b) was there ever really a solid system in the first place?; c) is kenpo actually a radical martial art, or simply one more articulation of martial art principles?; d) what is the relation between the importation of, "outside," materials (i.e. arnis, grappling, judo, etc.); e) does kenpo HAVE an, "outside," from which we borrow needed advances; f) what is the real status of the struggle "sublevels," vs. "advances," in kenpo; g) why do practitioners tend to fetishize either the system, or their, "radical," alterations of the system; h) what are the specific histories of those teachers associated with either the development of the, "hidden," material in kenpo or the development of an, "evolutionary," kenpo; i) what parts of the specific relations between," the kenpo system," (assuming that there is one) and the progress of particular students can we identify; j) to what extent is the whole discussion a simple cover-up for power trips? k) why is our focus on development of the system rather than development of the individuals practicing it? l) how does one establish that changed techniques and drills represent some, "evolutionary," development? m) how do we separate useful developments from changes that are made for change's sake or for ego gratification, n) how do we separate retaining necessary basics, sets, forms, techniques and theory from hanging onto tradition for tradition's sake, or for ego gratification?

With regard to your first point, we continue to agree to disagree here.

With regard to your second point. Thank you, your statement is profound. I think that only time will give us our answers: Kenpo traditionalists, Kenpo radicals, and everyone in between will continue learning, teaching, experimenting. Of the hundreds of Kenpoists experimenting in thousands of tiny ways, several "new" ideas or approaches will surface every year. A few of these will be strong enough to stand the test of time. Make a few small changes every year and in 10 years you will have something slightly different. In 50 years it will be very different. In 100 years, it will be almost completely different. There is almost no martial art that has remanined unchanged for over 100 years. I don't think anyone expects Kenpo to be more conservative than the rest.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Oh? You DON'T throw the claim about opposition to development or evolution every time the issue comes up? Would you like a few examples?

Otherwise, I repeat: generalizations will never get us anywhere.

 

[detroitfan102]

Where's Jeff Speakman?

 

[Brother John]

not really in the running.






Your Brother
John

 

[Kenpoist]

I will take the easy way out and say that no single person will have the most impact because so many instructors have taken the EPAK sytem in different directions.

It seems to me that many people are trying to get so "innovative" with their techniques - changing this and altering that, that they have forgotten the basic principles of SGM Parker's teachings. It is all there if you look for it - no need to "fix it if it ain't broke". Of course, SGM Parker had a lot more to teach and probably didn't have the opportunity to write every thing down due to his untimely passing - but I have seen alot of the basics lost in trying to "create" a new Kenpo system.

I would venture to say that SGM would disagree with some of the selections of "innovative istructors" if he were here today. Egos have clouded peoples judgement and some people left the old system on bad terms only to now come out riding on the coattails of SGM Parker after he passed away.

To tell you the truth -the more I have observed some of the behavior over the last 15 years, the more it disappoints me.

I am happy to find humble and honest instructors with integrity and loyalty to SGM Parker.

 

[Brother John]

It seems to me that many people are trying to get so "innovative" with their techniques - changing this and altering that, that they have forgotten the basic principles of SGM Parker's teachings.

I have seen alot of the basics lost in trying to "create" a new Kenpo system.

I would venture to say that SGM would disagree with some of the selections of "innovative istructors" if he were here today.

To tell you the truth -the more I have observed some of the behavior over the last 15 years, the more it disappoints me.

Just wondering, it sounds like you've had quite a bit of first hand experience getting to know or at least see some of these "Innovative" people or alterations... enough to make a pretty broad statement like that.
So please, let me ask:
#1: What of the "innovative" branches of Kenpo have you had this first hand experience with?
#2: Who was it?
#3: How long did you take in investigating it before you made these distinct judgements?
#4: How long did you personally know Mr. Parker? ((If you know what he'd be 'disappointed' in...you must know him fairly well.))


Thanks

Your Brother
John

 

[Kenpoist]

Unfortunately, I didn’t have the privilege of training with SGM Parker, but I have trained with and am training with those who did. This is MY opinion, so those instructors will remain nameless.



All of the instructors on this list are very talented Kenpo practitioners and I don’t have first hand knowledge of their instruction. I base my opinion on reading there publications, their websites and talking to instructors who have trained with them.



I started training in the late 80’s, had a lapse in training in the 90’s due to relocation and now I have come back into the kenpo arena to research and inquire about what has happened to the system since I had been away.



Some instructors have added new techniques and altered techniques – when not needed. Some are teaching extensions from the beginning and shortening the length of time to black belt. I see videos of instructors knocking their students out or knocking them all around while doing technique demos – no control used to keep their students from being injured.



Maybe I am a traditionalist – but I liked the system the way it was originally taught. I believe that SGM Parker covered all the bases and put everything into his system that was required – no altering needed. I am a strong believer in basics, having a good foundation. If there are recommendations of instructors who have upheld the values and loyalty to SGM Parker’s teaching, than please point me in that direction and I will research and try to observe it for myself.

 

[Brother John]

Maybe I am a traditionalist – but I liked the system the way it was originally taught. I believe that SGM Parker covered all the bases and put everything into his system that was required – no altering needed. I am a strong believer in basics, having a good foundation. If there are recommendations of instructors who have upheld the values and loyalty to SGM Parker’s teaching, than please point me in that direction and I will research and try to observe it for myself.

Nothing wrong with being in love with the system the very way that it was when Mr. Parker died, it's an excellent system. Very excellent. But I don't believe 'perfect'.

I also agree VERY heartily on your thoughts on Strong basics and a solid foundation. That is so very very important!!!

As far as pointing you toward those who've innovated and yet still been loyal to SGM Parker's teaching... that depends, loyal to him, his ideals & vision, his curriculum, his association...etc. There are a great many different ways to see that word.

Your Brother
John

 

[Kenpoist]

Ditto! It is an excellent system - no system compares in my humble opinion ad I have had to study s4everal other sytems when I left the kenpo training and moved to Central Virginia - where kenpo does not exist.

I don't want to open up a can of worms in the "loyalty" department, because I only have second hand knowledge of some of the politics that have taken place since SGM Parker's passing (IKKA mismanagement, etc..).

Happy training

 

[Fastmover]

Maybe I am a traditionalist – but I liked the system the way it was originally taught.

Question is, how was the system originally taught and to whom? Which version of EPAK is the best method? Some will say the last. Others will say he watered down the system when he evolved through the years. Some people need 700 techniques, some need 154 plus extensions to feel all warm and fuzzy!

I assume you are speaking of the book version in Vol 5? There is no way that Parkers books contain all the information that he knew. I would be willing to bet there was a lot of info he shared that was not in the books.

 

[Kenpoist]

Question is, how was the system originally taught and to whom? Which version of EPAK is the best method? Some will say the last. Others will say he watered down the system when he evolved through the years. Some people need 700 techniques, some need 154 plus extensions to feel all warm and fuzzy!

I assume you are speaking of the book version in Vol 5? There is no way that Parkers books contain all the information that he knew. I would be willing to bet there was a lot of info he shared that was not in the books.

Yes to each his own. I like the 16 tech system which allows for gradual development and offers the student a chance to develop good fundamentals. I think the original 184 tech system had everything needed for all possible attack scenarios. The Tracy system added the other 300+ techs later on ( techs like delayed sword, but called inward defenses A,B,C,D etc... -just added a different strike on the end).

I am also refering to the politics of it all.

No doubt SGM Parker taught many more concepts to his high ranking students, but due to his untimely passing, it is not all documented.

 

[ikenpo]

Yes to each his own. I like the 16 tech system which allows for gradual development and offers the student a chance to develop good fundamentals. I think the original 184 tech system had everything needed for all possible attack scenarios. The Tracy system added the other 300+ techs later on ( techs like delayed sword, but called inward defenses A,B,C,D etc... -just added a different strike on the end).

I am also refering to the politics of it all.

No doubt SGM Parker taught many more concepts to his high ranking students, but due to his untimely passing, it is not all documented.

Scott,

I'm confused again. Who do you study EPAK with here in Houston, TX? I know most, if not all of the instructors here in Houston. Mr. Braughton teaches IMUA Kenpo, Mr. Smith teaches a variation that he doesn't call EPAK, Mr. McCord teaches the AKKI Mills curriculum, Mr. Ritchie (whom I'm only conversed with via email) teaches a Kenpo Taijutsu thing he created with Brent Berry's mess and Bujitsu, which is NOT Ed Parker's American Kenpo, and I hold 2 classes IMUA Kenpo and a EPAK class (the only one I know of in Houston) that teaches the 154 base techs, standard sets I & II, forms, sayings, pledges, basics, freestyle techs, etc...So please let me know who your training with because I'd love to make a new friend.

Regards, Jason

 

[Fastmover]

Scott,

I'm confused again. Who do you study EPAK with here in Houston, TX? I know most, if not all of the instructors here in Houston. Mr. Braughton teaches IMUA Kenpo, Mr. Smith teaches a variation that he doesn't call EPAK, Mr. McCord teaches the AKKI Mills curriculum, Mr. Ritchie (whom I'm only conversed with via email) teaches a Kenpo Taijutsu thing he created with Brent Berry's mess and Bujitsu, which is NOT Ed Parker's American Kenpo, and I hold 2 classes IMUA Kenpo and a EPAK class (the only one I know of in Houston) that teaches the 154 base techs, standard sets I & II, forms, sayings, pledges, basics, freestyle techs, etc...So please let me know who your training with because I'd love to make a new friend.

Regards, Jason

Jason,

All you guys doing "Southern Texas Kenpo" are all lost!!! Everyone knows that "Northern Texas Kenpo" is the real stuff!!!!

Who Loves Ya!!!

John

 

[ikenpo]

Jason,

All you guys doing "Southern Texas Kenpo" are all lost!!! Everyone knows that "Northern Texas Kenpo" is the real stuff!!!!

Who Loves Ya!!!

John

Hey,

I've heard you're good people from my Kansas connection. If you ever have a lay over in H-Town give me a call...

jb

p.s. That's provided I won't make TMac (Terry McCord) jealous :inlove:...LOL

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

Why was Lee Wedlake not on the list. He has been constantly releasing books and writting very good articles about kenpo for many years. His knowledge, understanding and kenpo ability are quite remarkable. Not only does he know kenpo as well as any he his very knowledgable in Tia Chi, Kail + systema.

????

 

[ikenpo]

Why was Lee Wedlake not on the list. He has been constantly releasing books and writting very good articles about kenpo for many years. His knowledge, understanding and kenpo ability are quite remarkable. Not only does he know kenpo as well as any he his very knowledgable in Tia Chi, Kail + systema.

????

That's probably a question to ask yourself. If you know him and what he's about what characterisitcs exist or don't exist that might make one leave him off the list completely? In what way would his impact on the system be reflected? Through writing, innovation, organization, proliferation of the system?

Just some thoughts, jb

 

[Doc]

Why was Lee Wedlake not on the list. He has been constantly releasing books and writting very good articles about kenpo for many years. His knowledge, understanding and kenpo ability are quite remarkable. Not only does he know kenpo as well as any he his very knowledgable in Tia Chi, Kail + systema.

????

Don't get excited. The person who made the list placed people on it that they felt were significant. That's all. I'm senior to everyone on that list except one and even with another, and was left off. Big deal. I know Lee could give a rip. Don't sweat the small stuff. Let's talk about the Raiders or something. Uhhhhh, I mean Falcons.