Which way to correctly do mawashi geri?

[Blade96]

Was at class tonight, and was working on my mawashi geri. I had 2 BB's teaching me - one was a shodan and the other was my friend I mentioned in posts before I believe , Sandan, formerly my nidan. (he got sandan like 2 weeks ago)

They both told us different way mawashi geri should be done, and I dunno which is right way.

Shodan said to lift up your leg in front of you, like you was going to do a mae geri snap kick before moving it to the side.

Sandan said you lift your leg out sideways first paralel to ground before snapping the lower part of your leg out almost like a mae geri snap kick, except parallel to the ground (pretty much almost like yoko geri kicks)

Who is right? how is it most commonly done? Cause i was told 2 different things by 2 different BB's.......

 

[Bill Mattocks]

In Isshin-ryu, we don't normally do mawashi-geri, we do something similar called otoshi-geri. But in either case, knee comes up like mae-geri. Purpose is, I am told, to protect the groin. A kick can be a block, but not if the knee is off to the side. Remember, though, I'm no expert.

 

[dancingalone]

You can do it either way. The front kick chamber version is faster, albeit weaker. I prefer the bigger motion in the second method since it lets you swing the hip into the kick more.

Which is correct in your style? Ask the chief instructor since he decides. For what it's worth, the front kick chamber version seems to be more common in schools that spar in tournaments a lot. You can also consult the classical Shotokan books. Dynamic Karate by Matayoshi Nakayama, a direct student of Gichin Funakoshi, shows the bigger parallel chamber on page 139. Seems to me the second method is more 'traditional'.

 

[Carol]

Is the front-kick chamber a bit more precise in its targeting? I've done it both ways

 

[dancingalone]

Is the front-kick chamber a bit more precise in its targeting? I've done it both ways

Probably. It's a shorter motion which tends to be quicker and easier to 'track' the target with. If one is less flexible like some beginners can be, I actually think it's easier to learn the other method first since you can flare your hips open in the initial chambering. The front kick chamber requires such a quick turning action...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Probably. It's a shorter motion which tends to be quicker and easier to 'track' the target with. If one is less flexible like some beginners can be, I actually think it's easier to learn the other method first since you can flare your hips open in the initial chambering. The front kick chamber requires such a quick turning action...

Correct me if I'm missing something, but if you raise your knee to the side, you present your crotch to me, and I'm going to snap kick it.

Also if you raise that leg up sideways, telegram. I'll rush in and jam your kick.

And if you chamber with the knee pointed ahead, not only do I not know what kick you're going to throw, but you can both block and steer with the knee if I kick you or rush you to jam your kick.

Just what I'm being taught, so respectfully asked.

 

[dancingalone]

Correct me if I'm missing something, but if you raise your knee to the side, you present your crotch to me, and I'm going to snap kick it.

Also if you raise that leg up sideways, telegram. I'll rush in and jam your kick.

And if you chamber with the knee pointed ahead, not only do I not know what kick you're going to throw, but you can both block and steer with the knee if I kick you or rush you to jam your kick.

Just what I'm being taught, so respectfully asked.

Good questions. Those are indeed problems one would face if the mawashi-geri is executed as IN ISOLATION. It's no different from chambering the opposite arm to your hip when you are punching. That's a rather stupid thing to do at face value, right, since you are likewise opening yourself up for attack?

Of course the reality is that the chambering hand is really pulling and grabbing which makes a lot more sense in application. Same with the 'wide open' kick. In Goju-ryu karate you would never just straight up throw mawashi-geri to a foe directly to your front. It's low percentage and opens you up for attack as you observed, Bill. However the circular motion you learn by kicking like this is useful in conjunction with tai sabaki. The swinging hip motion is one exaggerated way of practicing circling to avoid an on-rushing, and yes the kick is there after you have learned to 1) get off line 2) guard your centerline during the transitional movement.

 

[Blade96]

You can do it either way. The front kick chamber version is faster, albeit weaker. I prefer the bigger motion in the second method since it lets you swing the hip into the kick more.

Which is correct in your style? Ask the chief instructor since he decides. For what it's worth, the front kick chamber version seems to be more common in schools that spar in tournaments a lot. You can also consult the classical Shotokan books. Dynamic Karate by Matayoshi Nakayama, a direct student of Gichin Funakoshi, shows the bigger parallel chamber on page 139. Seems to me the second method is more 'traditional'.

then it stands to reason my sandan would say the second one cause he is older both in years and in rank.

Just wondered if a karateka could protect their crotch if they went with the traditional method instead of the raise your leg in front method? Just thinking out loud.....

also cause i'm of the belt level where I can spar now. Next tournament, I'm going to. they let yellow belts and up spar but not white belts, for obvious reasons.

 

[dancingalone]

Just wondered if a karateka could protect their crotch if they went with the traditional method instead of the raise your leg in front method? Just thinking out loud.....

Of course one could, given sufficient practice.

Regardless I think we all sometimes get caught up in thinking that what typically happens in sparring (two guys in a kickfest) is the same fighting lessons as what a traditional karate system should be imparting. The real answer is that you would never employ mawashi-geri in a fighting situation where worrying about covering your groin is a real concern. Evade & protect yourself, place your foe at disadvantage, and THEN use mawashi-geri if you must. The best karate-ka can do all those three at the same time seamlessly.

 

[Blade96]

Thanks all :angel:

I will ask my sensei when i see him.

But you did help me. so both my BB's are right. So I will ask my sensei which he likes us to learn and use.

 

[seasoned]

Standing in a ready stance facing your target, your leg lifts, which facilitates the pivot of the supporting leg. As the heel of the supporting foot sets down, the kick lands. This is the hardest stance to practice from because it forces you to not just pivot, but to snap your hips around into position. The groin is exposed for a very short time, unless you leave the kick hanging. Once the leg draws back from the kick you can move in or back into a fighting stance. This kick is not taught in Okinawan GoJu, but is good for point sparring.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Believe it or not, this topic is mentioned on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawashi_geri

I found this video, it shows the knee out to the side:

By the way, that's a much higher kick than we do in Isshin-Ryu.

Here's a Shotokan video demo, which seems to show the knee coming up first in front:

This fellow also clearly brings the knee up in front first. His is interesting because he's turning and opening up his hip before he even brings the knee up (which is how he's managing to bring the knee up straight in front before executing the kick):

 

[punisher73]

Practice both versions and find which version works better for you in what circumstances.

Some people prefer one version to another simply due to how their joints are and puts less strain on them.

 

[repz]

The mae geri chamber that slips into a mawashi geri I used to use in both shotokan and now in kyokushin, and both instructors said it was wrong fundamentally, and i was told to chamber the leg to the side (horizonatly) for the mawashi geri. In kyokushin we do perform the mae geri chamber to mawashi geri kick as a fake, but not during kihon for the mawashi geri since it was considered improper technique for basics, similar to throwing a yoko geri chambered leg and shifting into a mae geri kick.

In shotokan, I would imagine the horizontal chamber to the side and mawashi geri is the method most common, considering I was always corrected by my shotokan sensei for it, and theres countless videos and books that show this method.

There is two ways to throw the mawashi geri. One, with the side obliques and snap back to fighting stance, and the full turn using the back muscles, in shotokan i learned a third one though, with the back turned away from the opponent and shooting out a back-kick (45 degree-ish) like mawashi geri. Then, finally, there is another one in kyokushin and I beliebve muay thia (since i first learned this from my kickboxing and san shou days), that shoots the rounhouse kick up, and slants it downwards at a 45 degree angle, which is used for kyokushin low kicks and high kicks.

All this with one kick. I love to keep them guessing when you can shoot it out from any angle in your stance, and even in any angle once its in the air.

 

[blindsage]

And a fifth, which is what some call the 45 degree kick. Instead of chambering in front or high on the side, it's comes up directly at a 45 degree angle. It doesn't really chamber. It's like the Muay Thai round kick, but at an upward angle instead of up-around-down. A lot of Kyokushin fighters use it without making a distinction betwen it and the Muay Thai roundhouse (you see a lot of knock-outs from this kick), but the mechanics are a little different. I think TKD fighters use it as well.

 

[Nomad]

This is really, really simple. When in doubt, the higher ranking senior is always right. This holds true even when they're not.

So you should do it the way your sandan sensei says, unless and until he changes it.

There are multiple variations on many techniques, including mawashi geri. The highest ranking senior gets to dictate his preferences to the class. There may be a very good reason for him to teach one version at one particular time, and another (that contradicts the first) later on... just go with it.

 

[Blade96]

This is really, really simple. When in doubt, the higher ranking senior is always right. This holds true even when they're not.

So you should do it the way your sandan sensei says, unless and until he changes it.

There are multiple variations on many techniques, including mawashi geri. The highest ranking senior gets to dictate his preferences to the class. There may be a very good reason for him to teach one version at one particular time, and another (that contradicts the first) later on... just go with it.

Thanks. He isnt a sensei though, my sandan - he is sempai. Our highest ranking senior BB student though is a yondan and he is also a sempai.

and yeah I'll ask my sensei though. I know he'll tell me.

btw I told carol that mawashi geri meant roundhouse kick. Then, I remembered from my 2 months of Kempo that they also do roundhouse kicks. I also remembered telling my sensei that some of the moves at least were the same in kempo and shotokan. For example we both have juji uke or X block. I had also told my sensei I had originally come from a kempo dojo.

when i said some of the moves were the same, he's like 'No they're not!"

Of course this is coming from a guy who told me he never trained in any other styles but Shotokan, when I knew he was a student of Masami Tsuruoka, a Chito-ryu sensei. I joked with my sensei that he cant lie worth beans and see if he ever tells me another little white lie =] My sensei didnt know i knew Tsuruoka-sensei wasnt shotokan. we laughed about it It was funny

I know my sensei will tell me which version of mawashi geri he prefers. He's a good guy. Full of horseradish at times but a good guy and a heck of a shotokan teacher.

Thanks for all your help in my topic, peoples.

 

[Cirdan]

We do it the second way. For beginners it is sometimes broken down similar to the first way since we can then isolate and empathise the hip movement.

Also in Wado we turn our suporting foot before kicking in order to prevent damage to the knee.

There are of course a lot of variations, sometimes we practice the 45 degree kick blindsage mentioned.

 

[Haze]

This is not realy in the Goju curriculum but we use it in point sparring. I use it both ways depending on how my body is in relation to my opponent. If I was sideways to my opponent I would use leg up with my shin parallel to the floor (like a dog urinating on a fire hydrant) If I was more face on to my opponent I would start this kick like a front kick

Both are correct. It's up to your instructor and then in time,,,,,,,,,,,,it's up to you and what works best for you.

 

[Blade96]

ah ok So I asked my sensei tonight which method he prefers. Seems he and my Sandan are on the same page - he wants it done with leg sideways first like yoko geri.

Our BB's just wanted to show us - so I asked here just for clarification - but since the mawashi geri is not necessary to learn in order for me to get my orange belt, it doesn't look like I have to worry about it for a while =]

Again, thanks for all your help peoples. You're all angels. :angel: