What do you plan on doing now?

[hardheadjarhead]

For those of you that voted for Kerry...what do you plan on doing now? How are you going to fight back? ARE you going to fight back? Those that voted Libertarian or for Nader can jump in as well.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Phoenix44]

1. I just made a contribution to BlackBoxVoting.org, which is starting investigations under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) into election irregularities.

2. I fax'd Ralph Nader, who needs signatures to begin contesting the election results in certain states. (By the way, his fax line was busy until 3:30 this morning.) We may have 4 more years of Bush, but we will not accept black box voting machines.

3. My partner and I are having a dinner party at our house tonight for all the liberal activists we worked with in the past year. We're going to eat, drink, be merry, and plan our next course of action. (You're welcome to join us)

4. I'm still working with our local Media Watch organization to continue and expand our media outreach efforts.

5. I'm going to the 1:00 advanced class at the dojo.

How about you?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I'm jumping right back in here, of course. Posting here helps me get my talking points together. I'm going to start handing them out via e-mail to my friends, compile reading lists and the like. I might get some groups together to go over these things, buy DVD's and turn them over to the library (or get people together for a viewing).

With that last idea, if I get a group together to watch a DVD I've purchased, I might take up a collection to buy a like DVD for the library. Hmmm.

I'm still thinking up ideas.


Regards,

Steve

 

[Flatlander]

Steve, have t shirts made up: "Now dontcha wish you'd voted?"

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I detailed mine in another thread. Short summary:

I'm continuing the fight. I will get more involved with the local scene, and will continue to try to educate those I do come into contact with to think for themselves and vote. To me, it doesn't matter who they vote for, or if they agree with me at all...just that they do look at things and make a choice. I'm also beginning to start boycotts of those media outlets that continued to expand the falsehood that there were only 2 choices this year.

I'm also looking into running for several local and national offices myself over the next 4 years. Change begins at home, and Buffalo is a bloody mess. We need a new mayor, a new county exec and a new govenor. Having the local common council executed might also be a good start.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I detailed mine in another thread. Short summary:

I'm continuing the fight. I will get more involved with the local scene, and will continue to try to educate those I do come into contact with to think for themselves and vote. To me, it doesn't matter who they vote for, or if they agree with me at all...just that they do look at things and make a choice. I'm also beginning to start boycotts of those media outlets that continued to expand the falsehood that there were only 2 choices this year.

I'm also looking into running for several local and national offices myself over the next 4 years. Change begins at home, and Buffalo is a bloody mess. We need a new mayor, a new county exec and a new govenor. Having the local common council executed might also be a good start.

Good luck to all of us in getting people to "look at things." Most people, it seems, work from a confirmation bias.

As for local elections...two friends ran locally and got whupped in a political game every bit as vicious as the national elections. Moreso, as they now have trashed reputations that are undeserved.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Brother John]

For those of you that voted for Kerry...what do you plan on doing now? How are you going to fight back? ARE you going to fight back? Those that voted Libertarian or for Nader can jump in as well.
Regards,
Steve

I'm just curious, why "Fight Back"?
Why not "work together"?

seems more productive and useful for the nation and the local things.
I guess I'm saying, why not work hard for those issues you believe in, just as hard as you always have... but why make it an 'us against them' deal? Seems like one way gets things done while the other gets "politics as usual" done; which is really just spinning wheels anyway.

Your Brother
John

 

[GAB]

I'm just curious, why "Fight Back"?
Why not "work together"?

seems more productive and useful for the nation and the local things.
I guess I'm saying, why not work hard for those issues you believe in, just as hard as you always have... but why make it an 'us against them' deal? Seems like one way gets things done while the other gets "politics as usual" done; which is really just spinning wheels anyway.

Your Brother
John

Hi John, Good one...

Regards, Gary

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Steve, I figure I'll use the Imperial March as my campaign theme, and show up in costumes all the time. When my opponents start mudslinging, I'll drop my pants and display my scooby doo boxers, fire back the "Here your answer", then shout "Scoooby Dooby Doooooo!"

I'll then ask if we can either return to the issues that matter or if they can display better skivies.

I live in a city that is primarily Democrat, heavily conservative, and about 20 years behind reality.

How can a guy dressed up as Darth Vader, wearing purple scooby shorts and talking sence not fail to get noticed?

I've already worked out my opening speel.
As the intro ends and the music fades, an image of the Emperor is projected on the wall. I drop to my knees and recite the traditional "What is thy bidding my Master?"
A recorded comment is them played "You must win this Election Lord Kaith. Only then will the road to Washington open for our forces"

"Yes My Master"

I will rise, remove the Vader mask and turn to face the crowd.

"Hello Buffalo! Before we start and my opponent starts to dig up dirt, sling mud and otherise jerk you off to obscure the fact that there are real issues here I just want you, my opponent and all his little pixies to know a few very important fact. These fact will have come out sooner or later, so I just want to get them out now, so we can focus on the real important things like taxes, jobs, health care and the economy.
Firstly - I am wearing scooby doo underwear.
Secondly - I like porn, and have lust in my heart.
Thirdly - I am in debt
Forthly - I can't spell for beans
Fifthly - etc etc etc.

Now that I've shown you my dirty laundry, as well as the laundry I'm wearing, I'd like to spend time on the issues that really matter to you and me. I will be out here every week in another rediculous costume, focusing on the real issues and the hard facts, while my opponents will show up in expensive suits and focus on the contents of my closet. You the voters will have to decide which you prefer. The clean cut never nail it down, or the insane guy in the Klingon suit who knows what you feel, knows your pain because he is one of you, who will fight like the insane Fedakin that he is.

I now salute my opponent in the old highland manner. (Cue the MoonShot)

Lets Dance Buffalo!"

 

[GAB]

I detailed mine in another thread. Short summary:

I'm continuing the fight. I will get more involved with the local scene, and will continue to try to educate those I do come into contact with to think for themselves and vote. To me, it doesn't matter who they vote for, or if they agree with me at all...just that they do look at things and make a choice. I'm also beginning to start boycotts of those media outlets that continued to expand the falsehood that there were only 2 choices this year.

I'm also looking into running for several local and national offices myself over the next 4 years. Change begins at home, and Buffalo is a bloody mess. We need a new mayor, a new county exec and a new govenor. Having the local common council executed might also be a good start.

Hi Kaith,

I think New York, as well as California are tough one's to change. With the financial strength that's in those two states alone.

The State of Ohio is one that surprised me.

I sure hope this does not continue to be a problem, that is, (worked out in the court system).

I figure the fellows that made up the Constitution about now are saying I told you so (regarding the checks and balance's).

I think Brother John has the right idea.

Regards, Gary

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I'm just curious, why "Fight Back"?
Why not "work together"?

seems more productive and useful for the nation and the local things.
I guess I'm saying, why not work hard for those issues you believe in, just as hard as you always have... but why make it an 'us against them' deal? Seems like one way gets things done while the other gets "politics as usual" done; which is really just spinning wheels anyway.

Your Brother
John

I think "fighting back" is an appropriate term because so many of the values that I hold dear are considered to be "morally wrong" by the religious right, which helps fuel the political debate. Of course, to me, these are "morally right" things we should be aware of.

Conversely, things that this Administration considers to be "hampering progress", such as environmental laws and controls, I consider to be, very literally, virtues, and I consider the widespread polluting of our environment and of the next generations of Americans a sin, again, quite literally.

Of course we will only make progress through working with other people. But our values and ideals are framed in such opposite ways that it is a struggle - a fight - to reach a middle ground. Now that Bush keeps talking about his "mandate from the people" (ha ha), language like that makes it even harder to come together in discussion.

 

[Brother John]

Now that Bush keeps talking about his "mandate from the people" (ha ha), language like that makes it even harder to come together in discussion.

That's an interesting way to put it (not the above quote, but of your view of your struggle). Thanks for the insight. Just curious what those moral issues are that you feel this strongly about.

I think that it's interesting that when Clinton won with less of a percentage of the vote the media decried it as a "Clear mandate from the nation", when President Bush won with 51% it's somehow wrong to call it the same thing.

By all means, work your hardest for those things that you believe in!
You've got my respect.

Your Brother
John

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I'm just curious, why "Fight Back"?
Why not "work together"?

seems more productive and useful for the nation and the local things.
I guess I'm saying, why not work hard for those issues you believe in, just as hard as you always have... but why make it an 'us against them' deal? Seems like one way gets things done while the other gets "politics as usual" done; which is really just spinning wheels anyway.

Your Brother
John

Because the people I'm fighting do not know compromise. They do not answer to reason. They do not humble themselves with education. You can't pound a nail through their head much less an idea.

"Fight" is a metaphor as I use it in any case. It encourages others to get off their rears and get to work.

Flatlander...excellent idea. It'd make a good bumper sticker, too.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Brother John]

Because the people I'm fighting do not know compromise. They do not answer to reason. They do not humble themselves with education. You can't pound a nail through their head much less an idea.

It's a shame you have that opinion.
But you've got a point: it is important to fight for what you feel is right and against what you feel is wrong. It is important to answer to reason, to humble yourself and to seek education.
Still don't think I want a nail through my head.
Doesn't sound nearly as useful as an idea.

Contrary positions is what makes our political system work.
Fight, I understand. Fight back makes it seem to me like you were wronged or violated in some way.

Your Brother
John

 

[J. Lee]

I think "fighting back" is an appropriate term because so many of the values that I hold dear are considered to be "morally wrong" by the religious right, which helps fuel the political debate. Of course, to me ...

You are not wrong in your considerations
JUST Wrong in your interpretation of values IAW 51% of voting citizens .

j lee

 

[rmcrobertson]

Many of us plan to do a better job of teaching, on the theory that however much this is what Raymond Williams called a, "long result," reason and reality will, in the end, beat supersitition, bigotry and fantasy.

Then too, in the long run Americans will recover what Jefferson called their, "true vision."

We can also just wait for the Federal indictments to come down: looks like Tom de Lay's going first.

There's also something to be said for a set of decorous, non-violent insults to just about everything that the pack of yahoos currently in power hold dear.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

It's a shame you have that opinion.
But you've got a point: it is important to fight for what you feel is right and against what you feel is wrong. It is important to answer to reason, to humble yourself and to seek education.
Still don't think I want a nail through my head.
Doesn't sound nearly as useful as an idea.

Contrary positions is what makes our political system work.
Fight, I understand. Fight back makes it seem to me like you were wronged or violated in some way.

Your Brother
John

Well, John...I have a point, or its a shame I have that opinion? Which is it? Contrary opinions make our system work, but its a shame I have opinions contrary to yours? How contrary.

Sorry the "nail in the head" line was lost on you.

I say "fight back" because that is what one does after getting hammered. Right now you're making an appeal to emotion by trying to make me sound aggressive. Got news for ya: I AM.

John Lee, on the other hand, is running an argumentum ad populum. Given that 51% of people voted for Bush, his reasoning goes, I must therefore be wrong. This is akin to saying that because the majority believed in slavery at one time, it was justifiable.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Feisty Mouse]

You are not wrong in your considerations
JUST Wrong in your interpretation of values IAW 51% of voting citizens .

j lee

Huh?

 

[Ping898]

I have the same problem as you Feisty. Half of what this administration claims to want to do and says they feel morally bound to do just goes against what I believe and they consider what I believe to be morally wrong.

I admittedly am not active in politics or any political organizations, not my thing, I did vote...and unfortunetally my guy didn't win...mostly I just plan to keep chugging along, and praying that this country doesn't get completely destroyed in the next 4 years.....

 

[Brother John]

Well, John...I have a point, or its a shame I have that opinion? Which is it? Contrary opinions make our system work, but its a shame I have opinions contrary to yours? How contrary.
Sorry the "nail in the head" line was lost on you.
I say "fight back" because that is what one does after getting hammered. Right now you're making an appeal to emotion by trying to make me sound aggressive. Got news for ya: I AM.
John Lee, on the other hand, is running an argumentum ad populum. Given that 51% of people voted for Bush, his reasoning goes, I must therefore be wrong. This is akin to saying that because the majority believed in slavery at one time, it was justifiable.

Regards,
Steve

Steve-
It's not a shame that you have an opinion different than mine, I never said that. I think that your stated opinion:

Because the people I'm fighting do not know compromise. They do not answer to reason. They do not humble themselves with education. You can't pound a nail through their head much less an idea.

Is innacurate. But that's MY opinion. I think that if you really believe that this administration doesn't listen to reason, which I think it does, or doesn't compromise, which I think it does...then you are being very stubborn and extremely partisan; which it is your right to be. It makes it difficult to work with people who are so partisan, and i think that it thus boggs the system down... but that's my opinion.
I did say you had a point, but the opinion you stated (which I cut and pasted above) isn't a part of the 'good point' that I thought you made. Jeez, I thought I was just being nice and paying you a compliment for an argument that seemed to be well thought out; even if I don't wholeheartedly agree with it. Here's the point I thought you had:

"Fight" is a metaphor as I use it in any case. It encourages others to get off their rears and get to work.

I was talking about your reasoning for the use of the word "fight". I still think that in the context of "Fight back", it doesn't suit the needs...but hey...it's your sentence.

Contrary opinions make our system work, but its a shame I have opinions contrary to yours? How

I believe that because we have a political system that invites people to disagree and have a battle of ideas/possitions that it serves and protects us all. I didn't say that it's a shame you have an opinion that differs from mine. You are free to your opinion, I'm free to mine. You posted yours, I commented. Simple. Seems to me that you took offense.
That's your problem.


How am I appealing to emotions? with the nail in the head being painful comment I was actually trying to bring some levity to the discussion. If you sound or seem aggessive to anyone....that's on you. I could care less if you are aggressive or how people percieve you... it doesn't change my day one bit. Bon apitite...

I've always felt that being aggresive tends to be counterproductive in most instances.

I didn't know you were feeling 'hammered' Steve. From what I know, by and large the outcome of the elections were proper. No body 'attacked' you, you weren't wronged... the side you were rooting for simply lost. I understand that that may be difficult to accept, but I've got faith in ya.

Your Brother
John