We're Not Afraid!

[shesulsa]

Londoners have begun a grass roots movement in a bold statement to the terrorists who attempted to wreak havoc in their lives. Thousands of pictures are coming in from all over the country sending the message that the terrorists have failed at their game of intimidation.

I think they've got more huevos than we do. We scattered like frightened sheep, screamed, panicked and forfeited civil liberties. Brits are thumbing nose.

http://www.werenotafraid.com/

 

[michaeledward]

_:asian:_

 

[Floating Egg]

I'm not sure if they have more "huevos," but they have been dealing with terrorism a lot longer than the Americans.

 

[arnisador]

Well, even more to the point, I think, they've been dealing with war being brought to their country for much longer than we have. They're reacting like it's the bombing of London in WWII.

I think they've got more huevos than we do. We scattered like frightened sheep, screamed, panicked and forfeited civil liberties. Brits are thumbing nose.

I don't agree with the description of us or of them. They've got a stiff upper lip attitude and I respect that, but they've got considerably fewer freedoms already where civil liberties (and freedom of the press) are concerned. I wouldn't recommend paying $4.95 for it, but here's an article that nicely outlines the situation, from the 6 October 2004 Wall Street Journal:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/wsj/access/707891341.html?dids=707891341:707891341&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Oct+6%2C+2004&author=Scot+J.+Paltrow&type=91_1996&desc=Secrets+and+Spies%3A+U.K.+Agency+Makes+Gains+in+Terror+War

A close look at MI5 pieced together from court records, accounts of former MI5 operatives, security experts and press accounts shows how attractive the MI5 model can be. Since a 1994 bombing of the Israeli embassy in London, no Islamic terrorist plot in the United Kingdom has been successful, and MI5 has detected and stopped several. But it also shows that MI5's reputation for effectiveness comes at a price -- a loss of civil liberties and surrender of authority to the government -- that may be steeper than Americans want to pay.

 

[Floating Egg]

I don't know about civil liberties, but the British media is better than what we have in North America. Reporters actually grill leaders instead of asking them what their favorite color is and debates are actual debates rather than a competition to see who can yell the loudest.

 

[MA-Caver]

LIstening/reading ANY speech to fellow English by Winston Churchhill, it gives a good idea of what "stiff-upper-lip" attitude means. Then take a look at their "punk" movement... The Brits are a resilient people and of the ones that I know personally I'm glad to call friends for their upbeat and can do attitudes and wonderful sense of humor.
The article isn't surprising.

 

[Tgace]

Hmmm..one of the reasons they found the bombers so fast is because almost ALL of London is covered by cameras being watched by everybody from security to the police. How would Americans respond to a federal surveillance system of all public space as an answer to terrorism?

 

[arnisador]

I don't know about civil liberties, but the British media is better than what we have in North America.

Oh yeah, BBC news is great. But, the U.K. can effect greater legal restrictions on the press than the U.S. can. Official Secrets Act and all that rot, for one example.

 

[Floating Egg]

Oh, I didn't know that.

 

[MisterMike]

Sounds a little like..... "Bring it on."

Good for them.

 

[michaeledward]

Hmmm..one of the reasons they found the bombers so fast is because almost ALL of London is covered by cameras being watched by everybody from security to the police. How would Americans respond to a federal surveillance system of all public space as an answer to terrorism?

You, of all people, should know what is posted at every stop light in the country (OK, a bit of an exageration). Hell, I turn on my TV at times just to watch traffic. Forget about the cameras behind every cash regsister, atm, and in the ceiling at every Wal-mart.

Are you certain we don't already have a federal surveillance system?

 

[arnisador]

Many of the cameras at stop lights are for the timing of the lights and don't record photographs for later use. They're sensors more than cameras.

But yes, you are on camera many places in the U.S. But in the U.K. it's really something. They have police cameras everywhere.

 

[Simon Curran]

Many of the cameras at stop lights are for the timing of the lights and don't record photographs for later use. They're sensors more than cameras.

But yes, you are on camera many places in the U.S. But in the U.K. it's really something. They have police cameras everywhere.

Where I used to live in the centre of London, I had a police camera right outside my bedroom window on a stalk (thankfully it couldn't turn all of the way around) and personally I was quite happy about it, since a pub named The Sussex was blown up by the IRA once, not 100 yards away from where I lived.
As regards the article, we have been dealing with terrorists for a long time, and these cowards are just another type.

 

[Tgace]

You, of all people, should know what is posted at every stop light in the country (OK, a bit of an exageration). Hell, I turn on my TV at times just to watch traffic. Forget about the cameras behind every cash regsister, atm, and in the ceiling at every Wal-mart.

Are you certain we don't already have a federal surveillance system?

Believe me. Me of all people know that there is far from a "fed suv. system" out there. Every armed robbery I go to I search for a store camera somewhere that may hopefully have caught a getaway car leaving the lot....seldom happens. And many of the cameras we do have at the local "stop-n-robs" are crap. Traffic cameras, other than on the thruway up here, are rare.

We are far from the scale that much of Europe is at in terms of monitoring. Cameras that read and track license plates are even being used to monitor parking ramps, lots, roadways etc...

 

[Bammx2]

Surveilance cameras here in the UK are on a level most people in the states could not comprehend or maybe THINK they can.
Example....
Oxford Street,london.
Major shopping and business venue.
Walk 1,ONE, block and your picture will be taken 311 times.
EVERYBODY'S picture.Not just who they decide....everybody.
If you own an establishment that sells alcohol of any type or provide entertainment of any type,it is mandatory that you have cameras.
Now they are going to make cameras mandatory in ALL businesses.
This IS a testing ground for Big Brother........

just for kicks,go to

www.camvista.com

I believe you need Java.
But it shows you some camera locations here in the UK and other places around the world.


But on the original note......
Americans have no clue of the level of surveilance here......and how useless it is in most cases.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Londoners have begun a grass roots movement in a bold statement to the terrorists who attempted to wreak havoc in their lives. Thousands of pictures are coming in from all over the country sending the message that the terrorists have failed at their game of intimidation.

I think they've got more huevos than we do. We scattered like frightened sheep, screamed, panicked and forfeited civil liberties. Brits are thumbing nose.

http://www.werenotafraid.com/

The British are not a people that wise individuals mess with. After the Hitler/Stalin pact and the defeat of France, they stood alone against the Nazi behemoth. My sympathies and prayers are with the people of London.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Londoners have begun a grass roots movement in a bold statement to the terrorists who attempted to wreak havoc in their lives. Thousands of pictures are coming in from all over the country sending the message that the terrorists have failed at their game of intimidation.

I think they've got more huevos than we do. We scattered like frightened sheep, screamed, panicked and forfeited civil liberties. Brits are thumbing nose.

http://www.werenotafraid.com/

Lets not make this about "Us or them". I actually find it offensive that you claim that the US "scattered like frightened sheep, screamed, panicked and forfeited civil liberties." I think that's offensive to those who carried on in the direct aftermath of 9/11, which by the way cost the lives of over 3,000 people. I don't recall myself or anyone I know scattering like "frightened sheep". Of course i'm sure that is not the way you meant that to sound. It did, however, strike a bit of a nerve in the way that it was worded.

As for the British people, they have nobly assisted us in the war on terror, and they continue to do so. Unfortunately, they had grown rather complacent in the idea that it was Islam versus the US and they really didn't have anything personally to fear. The irony of Britains bombings are similar intelligence failures as the US, lent mostly from their lack of responsiveness to real threats within their muslim community.

That having been said, we stand with the British people as they stood with us in the aftermath of 9/11 and for a long time before.

The myth that many American's have apparently taken as truth is that the Patriot Act in some way made us more repressive than European police agencies. In reality, the security agencies of many European nations have far broader powers than the US even under the Patriot Act. For example, many European Intelligence Agencies are allowed to operate within the country, a reality denied the CIA.

 

[KenpoEMT]

:mp5: No Fear! :whip:

:2xBird2:

 

[Tgace]

The myth that many American's have apparently taken as truth is that the Patriot Act in some way made us more repressive than European police agencies. In reality, the security agencies of many European nations have far broader powers than the US even under the Patriot Act. For example, many European Intelligence Agencies are allowed to operate within the country, a reality denied the CIA.

Exactly. And while not to trivialize the bombings by any means, thousands dead on 9/11, compared to 30-40 in London is kind of disparate for comparison of national reaction dont you think?

 

[BushidoUK]

how about if we add up all those killed by American funded IRA bombs as well then?