Watered Down Martial Arts

Wing Woo Gar

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Just to throw out a different point of view, while it's true that some rules are made for safety, there are reasons other than safety that rules are made in combat sports. Sometimes, it's just about what will make the sport more enjoyable to watch or in which to participate. If fish hooking were legal in MMA, would that make the sport more enjoyable and accessible to the average member of the public or less? Optics are involved. Marketability is involved. Safety, too... but just one of several considerations.
True, its a spectacle and a business first. It wont exist in the same way without viewers. However, people love to watch sports violence. Take crashes in car races for instance.
 

GojuTommy

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Just to throw out a different point of view, while it's true that some rules are made for safety, there are reasons other than safety that rules are made in combat sports. Sometimes, it's just about what will make the sport more enjoyable to watch or in which to participate. If fish hooking were legal in MMA, would that make the sport more enjoyable and accessible to the average member of the public or less? Optics are involved. Marketability is involved. Safety, too... but just one of several considerations.
Optics and marketability is the whole reason the unified rules of MMA were created in the first place, so that would strongly suggest this is true.
 

GojuTommy

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True, its a spectacle and a business first. It wont exist in the same way without viewers. However, people love to watch sports violence. Take crashes in car races for instance.
Ive never met a race fan who watched racing of any sort in the hope of viewing a crash
 

GojuTommy

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Not an injury necessarily, Its a dirty secret. They all do. Just like people like to see a knockout. Roman games anyone?
Theres a huge difference between people hoping for a knock out in combat sports and people hoping for a crash
 

Dirty Dog

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Ive never met a race fan who watched racing of any sort in the hope of viewing a crash
Don't know many race fans then. I think very few are hoping for injuries, but crashes are always popular.

You're right that there is a difference between combat sports and racing, though. After all, an average of 13 people die each year from boxing injuries, but only 44 have died at all the NASCAR tracks combined.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Don't know many race fans then. I think very few are hoping for injuries, but crashes are always popular.

You're right that there is a difference between combat sports and racing, though. After all, an average of 13 people die each year from boxing injuries, but only 44 have died at all the NASCAR tracks combined.
Spot on.
 

drop bear

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So I think we can sum things up as theres a lot of myths about techniques banned in sports

A lot of them seem to pose only a minor danger if the person doing them does not have a dominant position, while posing a much serious threat though how serious is up for serious debate, if the person doing them has a dominant position.

Being able to fight makes Being able to do illegal moves a bit easier. There are chin control options from a non dominant position. Which is essentially what people are going to use fish hooks for.

But you still need to know those positions.

Now your choice in training. Mabye you can find a partner who will let you put your finger in his mouth. But that partner won't be me.

So yntill then you will probably have to put up with Being good at chin control and hope you can figure out fish hooks when the time comes.

The advantage of chin control over fish hooks is you get neck cranks. Which will really mess someone up.

 
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GojuTommy

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Being able to fight makes Being able to do illegal moves a bit easier. There are chin control options from a non dominant position. Which is essentially what people are going to use fish hooks for.

But you still need to know those positions.

Now your choice in training. Mabye you can find a partner who will let you put your finger in his mouth. But that partner won't be me.

So yntill then you will probably have to put up with Being good at chin control and hope you can figure out fish hooks when the time comes.

The advantage of chin control over fish hooks is you get neck cranks. Which will really mess someone up.

Are you sure I cant stick my fingers in your mouth?
 

tkdroamer

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Don't know many race fans then. I think very few are hoping for injuries, but crashes are always popular.

You're right that there is a difference between combat sports and racing, though. After all, an average of 13 people die each year from boxing injuries, but only 44 have died at all the NASCAR tracks combined.
"He's makin' a left turn! ...He's makin; another left turn!

Seriously though, I love watching NHRA drag racing.
 

Dirty Dog

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"He's makin' a left turn! ...He's makin; another left turn!

Seriously though, I love watching NHRA drag racing.
I specified NASCAR and Boxing because they are arguably the most common examples of race and combat sports with long documented safety records.

I enjoy racing. There's an NHRA track less than 10 miles from our home. I'm a regular at the Friday Night Drags. It's awesome. $30 a car and you can run all night. I have done easily a thousand runs on that track. They also have a 2.3 mile, 14 turn road course. I've done hundreds of laps on that, too. I'm a fan of the door slammer classes, and real street cars are my absolute favorites. Real ones. Cars with AC, comfortable seats, infotainment systems, that don't require you to disassemble the cage to get in. Cars you can comfortably drive cross country, getting decent mileage on pump gas, stop at drag strips and road courses along the way and run respectable times on both. Without needing to change anything.
My current daily has been down the strip about 400 times. We do 4,000 mile road trips in it. And I run it on the road course as well. On low-profile tires, without even changing tire pressure, on a DA of 8800 feet, on an unprepped track (VHT doesn't get used on open track days), it's done a best of 11.9@124. From the ET, you can probably tell it's extremely traction limited.

The funny cars and top fuelers are certainly impressive, but I prefer cars that can be driven more than 1/2 mile without a full rebuild.

I also follow sports car racing (that's Jake on my hood!) and endurance racing.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I specified NASCAR and Boxing because they are arguably the most common examples of race and combat sports with long documented safety records.

I enjoy racing. There's an NHRA track less than 10 miles from our home. I'm a regular at the Friday Night Drags. It's awesome. $30 a car and you can run all night. I have done easily a thousand runs on that track. They also have a 2.3 mile, 14 turn road course. I've done hundreds of laps on that, too. I'm a fan of the door slammer classes, and real street cars are my absolute favorites. Real ones. Cars with AC, comfortable seats, infotainment systems, that don't require you to disassemble the cage to get in. Cars you can comfortably drive cross country, getting decent mileage on pump gas, stop at drag strips and road courses along the way and run respectable times on both. Without needing to change anything.
My current daily has been down the strip about 400 times. We do 4,000 mile road trips in it. And I run it on the road course as well. On low-profile tires, without even changing tire pressure, on a DA of 8800 feet, on an unprepped track (VHT doesn't get used on open track days), it's done a best of 11.9@124. From the ET, you can probably tell it's extremely traction limited.

The funny cars and top fuelers are certainly impressive, but I prefer cars that can be driven more than 1/2 mile without a full rebuild.

I also follow sports car racing (that's Jake on my hood!) and endurance racing.
My dad had a lot of cars...He was in Hotrod magazine in the late 70s and had the center layout for his Chevy Silverado? pickup with a crazy pinstripe paint job. I recently sold a 1932 Ford 5 window with a 383 stroker, mustang 2 front end, 1969 Corvette rear end. Chopped, dropped, purple pearl on ivory white.( built for my mother ). Im not a car guy per se but Ive had an incredible exposure to them because of my dad.
 

tkdroamer

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I specified NASCAR and Boxing because they are arguably the most common examples of race and combat sports with long documented safety records.

I enjoy racing. There's an NHRA track less than 10 miles from our home. I'm a regular at the Friday Night Drags. It's awesome. $30 a car and you can run all night. I have done easily a thousand runs on that track. They also have a 2.3 mile, 14 turn road course. I've done hundreds of laps on that, too. I'm a fan of the door slammer classes, and real street cars are my absolute favorites. Real ones. Cars with AC, comfortable seats, infotainment systems, that don't require you to disassemble the cage to get in. Cars you can comfortably drive cross country, getting decent mileage on pump gas, stop at drag strips and road courses along the way and run respectable times on both. Without needing to change anything.
My current daily has been down the strip about 400 times. We do 4,000 mile road trips in it. And I run it on the road course as well. On low-profile tires, without even changing tire pressure, on a DA of 8800 feet, on an unprepped track (VHT doesn't get used on open track days), it's done a best of 11.9@124. From the ET, you can probably tell it's extremely traction limited.

The funny cars and top fuelers are certainly impressive, but I prefer cars that can be driven more than 1/2 mile without a full rebuild.

I also follow sports car racing (that's Jake on my hood!) and endurance racing.
There is a 'run what you bring' strip about an hour north of where I live. Me, and my friends frequented it often when we were younger. At 18, we had built a '69 Dodge Challenger and ran in Pro Stock. Later on, we took the same car and converted it to a dirt track car and raced for 3-years. Great times.
There is a road course east of me that I have not tried yet. I think you can only use their cars but supposedly have some pretty cool rides. From the high-end Lamborghini to tamed down open wheel cars.
 

Dirty Dog

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There is a 'run what you bring' strip about an hour north of where I live. Me, and my friends frequented it often when we were younger. At 18, we had built a '69 Dodge Challenger and ran in Pro Stock. Later on, we took the same car and converted it to a dirt track car and raced for 3-years. Great times.
When I was in HS, there was no track closer than about 2.5 hours. So we found a place out in the middle of nowhere and raced there. There was a 3/4 mile straight, fairly level stretch. Cars at both ends with radios to ensure no other traffic (which very rarely happened, there was nothing out there to attract traffic). 1/4 mile race, 1/2 mile to slow down. Spectators kept behind the start. The local PD knew where the racing took place, but so long as nobody acted the fool in areas with traffic, they mostly left us alone.

When the drag strip opened, it was ~30 minutes from my house. The Friday Night Drags were (and still are) intended to provide a dirt cheap option for kids to race without breaking the law. It's still billed as a "take it to the track" event, and features "race a cop" and stuff like that. Back then it was like $5 to get in. Today it's $30. So still dirt cheap.

My buddies and I built a '69 RS/SS Camaro for Pro Street. Door slammers were our roots, and still what I find most interesting. At it's best, it ran mid-8's in the mid-160's. Wrecked it at Bandimere, when the guy in the other lane blew an engine and a chunk of rod took out a slick. Into the retaining wall at 160MPH or so, spinning. Every single body panel except the roof hit. Not an experience I care to repeat, but proof to young me that roll cages and harnesses work. To this day, those are one of the earliest mods I do on any vehicle.
seats2.jpg
There is a road course east of me that I have not tried yet. I think you can only use their cars but supposedly have some pretty cool rides. From the high-end Lamborghini to tamed down open wheel cars.
So it's a grown up go-kart track. That could be fun once, or once for each type of car, but probably not as a regular thing. Of course, if I didn't own a sports car, or wasn't willing to hammer it, I might very well feel differently.
 

tkdroamer

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When I was in HS, there was no track closer than about 2.5 hours. So we found a place out in the middle of nowhere and raced there. There was a 3/4 mile straight, fairly level stretch. Cars at both ends with radios to ensure no other traffic (which very rarely happened, there was nothing out there to attract traffic). 1/4 mile race, 1/2 mile to slow down. Spectators kept behind the start. The local PD knew where the racing took place, but so long as nobody acted the fool in areas with traffic, they mostly left us alone.

When the drag strip opened, it was ~30 minutes from my house. The Friday Night Drags were (and still are) intended to provide a dirt cheap option for kids to race without breaking the law. It's still billed as a "take it to the track" event, and features "race a cop" and stuff like that. Back then it was like $5 to get in. Today it's $30. So still dirt cheap.

My buddies and I built a '69 RS/SS Camaro for Pro Street. Door slammers were our roots, and still what I find most interesting. At it's best, it ran mid-8's in the mid-160's. Wrecked it at Bandimere, when the guy in the other lane blew an engine and a chunk of rod took out a slick. Into the retaining wall at 160MPH or so, spinning. Every single body panel except the roof hit. Not an experience I care to repeat, but proof to young me that roll cages and harnesses work. To this day, those are one of the earliest mods I do on any vehicle.
View attachment 29373

So it's a grown up go-kart track. That could be fun once, or once for each type of car, but probably not as a regular thing. Of course, if I didn't own a sports car, or wasn't willing to hammer it, I might very well feel differently.
We pretty much destroyed the Challenger on the dirt track. It already had cage in it from the strip days, but we had to modify it and radically modify the front-end to run on dirt. It was rolled or slammed into the wall multiple times but, you seldom got over 100 mph on dirt. Still a hell of a ride if you were in the open when it started turning.
 
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