Wado ryu history and training methodology ...

[pgsmith]

This is a thread to discuss the history and training within Wado ryu, given that it is quite a bit different than the other traditional karate lineages.

I'd like to start by asking how much of Yoshin ryu jujutsu is still taught within the Wado ryu curriculum? Does it still contain two person kumitachi? I ask this since these were the basis of most koryu systems, and I'm wondering how much of the koryu training methodology was retained when Wado ryu was created.

 

[Sojobo]

I'd like to start by asking how much of Yoshin ryu jujutsu is still taught within the Wado ryu curriculum?

The exact curriculum will vary depending on group (WIKF, JKF and Wado-ryu Renmei) and indeed associations/dojo within said groups.

But typically, as well as our Shotokan like (or at least to the layman) Kihon-waza (done in lines up and down the dojo), we have (usually) 15 solo kata and paired exercises / kata as follows:

Ippon / Sanbon Kumite
Ohyo Kumite
Kihon Kumite
Kumite Gata
Idori
Tanto-dori
Tachi-dori

[edit] it should be noted that not all groups practice all of these pairwork / kata - however all typically practice Kihon Kumite as a base line.

As far as I understand, Yoshin-ryu jujutsu (or at least the line founded by Yoshitoki Akiyama) is an extinct ryu-ha (I think the only surviving element is the Naginata-jutsu?) - so it is very difficult to answer your question directly.

If however we look at two of Yoshin ryu's descendant arts - namely Shindo Yoshin-ryu and Tenjin Shinyo-ryu, there are very similar techniques that can be found in Wado's Kihon Kumite, Idori and Tanto-dori kata. In fact some are virtually identical.

Its also interesting to note that all Wado paired kata (even ones that do not have a direct counterpart) share the same principles (kuzushi, noru, irimi, nagasu etc.)

Does it still contain two person kumitachi? I ask this since these were the basis of most koryu systems, and I'm wondering how much of the koryu training methodology was retained when Wado ryu was created.

Short answer to that is no - or at least not seriously practiced within any of the major groups that I am aware of.

As I mentioned above, we do have Tanto-dori (but to be fair this isn't practiced widely).

The Wado Idori "suggests" of course that both parties have a bladed weapon however it is practiced without.

 

[pgsmith]

In another thread, you mentioned that Wado ryu was not originally created for self defense. Most of the karate that I am familiar with (not a karate guy, so it's not first hand knowledge) seems to focus on fighting ability. Even Wado has competitions (which I assume are fight competitions, but not positive). So how do we reconcile conducting fighting competitions with not focusing on fighting ability?

 

[Sojobo]

In another thread, you mentioned that Wado ryu was not originally created for self defense. Most of the karate that I am familiar with (not a karate guy, so it's not first hand knowledge) seems to focus on fighting ability. Even Wado has competitions (which I assume are fight competitions, but not positive). So how do we reconcile conducting fighting competitions with not focusing on fighting ability?

The concept of 'self defence' is a nebulous subject.

What some may consider an effective system - others will see as woefully lacking in terms of its approach and ‘real life’ application.

As far as fighting goes - most Wado groups practice ‘Jiyu-kumite’ (free sparring) in the dojo as well as point scoring kumite (the type that we will see in the Olympics) in competitions – if they fancy. Whilst these teach students key concepts of distance, timing and application of certain techniques, arguably, the latter of the two will have the self defence guys suggesting it’s the wrong distance and timing in terms of practical application on the streets!!

However, chances are, a well trained Wado-ka will be a fairly decent fighter. Do they have the skill set to defend themselves?… possibly.

Does all that mean the primary reason for the creation of Wado-ryu is self defence? ... I don’t think so.

It is well documented that Otsuka sensei attached a far higher value to the concept of self betterment and the polishing of one’s character – through the process of continual focused training.

Whilst this may differ to the reasoning behind the creation of Okinawan Karate systems – It accords with the philosophy of similar Japanese gendai arts of the time (Aikido, Kendo, Iaido etc.).

 

[pgsmith]

It is well documented that Otsuka sensei attached a far higher value to the concept of self betterment and the polishing of one’s character – through the process of continual focused training.

Whilst this may differ to the reasoning behind the creation of Okinawan Karate systems – It accords with the philosophy of similar Japanese gendai arts of the time (Aikido, Kendo, Iaido etc.).

That's the primary reason listed for most arts that were formed during the Edo period. There had to be an overriding reason to go to the effort required to learn an art when there would likely be no real opportunity to use said art.
However, I was under the impression that the karate schools added that bit after the war like kendo did.

 

[Sojobo]

)

... However I was under the impression that the karate schools added that bit after the war like kendo did.

Otsuka codified his 'version' of Karate in or around 1939.

I can't comment to any great degree about other karate styles (I know relatively little about them).

However, as far as I understand, the 'do' aspect of martial study after the war (particularly in mainland Japan) - appealed far more to the masses.