Video me frustrated sparring

[JowGaWolf]

There's nothing like being frustrated with myself, tired from doing some crazy cardio sparring, sparring against someone with long reach, and just being on Empty. It's a good thing he had more energy than I did. That day made me step up my training.

Frustrated Kung Fu Video

 

[ShotoNoob]

NICE CLIP:

There's nothing like being frustrated with myself, tired from doing some crazy cardio sparring, sparring against someone with long reach, and just being on Empty. It's a good thing he had more energy than I did. That day made me step up my training.

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Sparring when tired leads to little to no improvement.
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Why I spend most all of my time building the base TMA strengths....
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@0.43: Priceless. Your opponent is in a weak stance & body posture. Shotokan 1-STEP technique from traditional guard (you're doing some circular combination somewhat out of stance that leaves your face wide open) would take care of opponent completely in a second or less...
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A kenpo law states that: "Circle-beats-line (straight); yet Line-beats-circle... hence the risk that a linear technique will beat-out a circular technique unless a number of countervailing factors are lined up.

 

[ShotoNoob]

There's nothing like being frustrated with myself, tired from doing some crazy cardio sparring, sparring against someone with long reach, and just being on Empty. It's a good thing he had more energy than I did. That day made me step up my training.

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I know your sparring approach is this as a learning exercise.... But in the traditional 1-steps, either the opponent or you close the distance before initiating technique.... PERIOD.... The actual time period for that can be very compressed....
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I typically don't try the "lunge forward" which we see you doing.... or Jai Harman & Co. @ times... hoping to out-react the opponent... which here with his reach & fresh energy he is able to back peddle.... I wait until the opponent approaches or alternatively deliberately advance on the opponent... I can also run at them (no into them mindset) if necessary....
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I don't generally trade punches...which I see you and your partner doing.... The overall working goal of the karate kumite traditional exercises is to turn his actions to your advantage.... make them into a vulnerability.... this requires proper tactical execution.
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TIME: 0:05. Opponent is wide open for rear round kick to face. This is also the precise moment to engage via 1-step tactics...I prefer hands.... Instead, you move away from his jabbing left hand.... I would actively embrace that jab with zero fear..... the danger is in his lowered right... he's too out-of-position to do much of a leg strike...
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An overall comment on the opponent's use of the jab..... which you do the conventional backing away from.... which is contrary to 1-step principles....
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You can jab at me all you want 'cause either I will do nothing 'cause it's out of range (essentially a feint); Or I will neutralize the jab from my guard.... I will take on the jab and disable, deflect, or otherwise dismantle the opponent's objective of intimidating or striking me with it... with that weapon temporarily negated, the opponent is now vulnerable to counter...
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It's all presented in the 1-steps, WC drills I posted, etc. etc..... what it take is the mental capability to act, not react.... mental discipline... which another poster @ the MT vs. WC thread said my WC traditional drills weren't competent in a real fight.... So we are right back to Jai-Like kickboxing.... re your opponent's style.....
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Nice training clip outlining the issues....

 

[JowGaWolf]

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I know your sparring approach is this as a learning exercise.... But in the traditional 1-steps, either the opponent or you close the distance before initiating technique.... PERIOD.... The actual time period for that can be very compressed....
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I typically don't try the "lunge forward" which we see you doing.... or Jai Harman & Co. @ times... hoping to out-react the opponent... which here with his reach & fresh energy he is able to back peddle.... I wait until the opponent approaches or alternatively deliberately advance on the opponent... I can also run at them (no into them mindset) if necessary....
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I don't generally trade punches...which I see you and your partner doing.... The overall working goal of the karate kumite traditional exercises is to turn his actions to your advantage.... make them into a vulnerability.... this requires proper tactical execution.
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TIME: 0:05. Opponent is wide open for rear round kick to face. This is also the precise moment to engage via 1-step tactics...I prefer hands.... Instead, you move away from his jabbing left hand.... I would actively embrace that jab with zero fear..... the danger is in his lowered right... he's too out-of-position to do much of a leg strike...
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An overall comment on the opponent's use of the jab..... which you do the conventional backing away from.... which is contrary to 1-step principles....
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You can jab at me all you want 'cause either I will do nothing 'cause it's out of range (essentially a feint); Or I will neutralize the jab from my guard.... I will take on the jab and disable, deflect, or otherwise dismantle the opponent's objective of intimidating or striking me with it... with that weapon temporarily negated, the opponent is now vulnerable to counter...
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It's all presented in the 1-steps, WC drills I posted, etc. etc..... what it take is the mental capability to act, not react.... mental discipline... which another poster @ the MT vs. WC thread said my WC traditional drills weren't competent in a real fight.... So we are right back to Jai-Like kickboxing.... re your opponent's style.....
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Nice training clip outlining the issues....

My kung fu brothers and I were sparring with another school where we go 45 seconds and then get a fresh guy every 45 seconds. It's good training because I had to really dig deep. The only problem is that I let emotion get the best of me by getting frustrated. That lunge forward was me trying to swing on empty with zero energy left, but it's not an excuse because even when I have zero energy I should still have focus and control. Jai Harman was leaning when he was fresh. lol. I think this is the one video that I watch the most because it's the only time where I really defeated myself.

My sparring partner used to be a boxer so he likes using his reach to jab and keep people on the outside. Unfortunate for me the only way I know how to close the gap is to attack low using my legs. I really don't know how to get in close with my fist when I'm sparring someone who is taller. That's something I'll need to work on.

TIME: 0:05. Opponent is wide open for rear round kick to face.

yeah about kicks. The rules that day were that we couldn't use kicks or sweeps. That's why our kicks looked the way they did lol. I never know what the rules will be when I go spar with the students at that school. It's their place so we have to play with by their rules. I'll definitely take your comments into consideration because with out my legs, I have a really hard time trying to close the gap on someone taller.

To be honest I'm open suggestion on how to close the gap on a taller person without kicking.

 

[drop bear]

To be honest I'm open suggestion on how to close the gap on a taller person without kicking.

Go backwards so that he is coming forwards. Then close the gap so to react he has to stop and change direction. Rather than trying to rush him. Which let's him keep any distance he wants an pick you off.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Go backwards so that he is coming forwards. Then close the gap so to react he has to stop and change direction. Rather than trying to rush him. Which let's him keep any distance he wants an pick you off.

I'll give this a try. Drawing him in is the one thing that I didn't try. Even when I look at some of my earlier videos I can tell that I'm focused on "getting in." Thanks

 

[ShotoNoob]

My kung fu brothers and I were sparring with another school where we go 45 seconds and then get a fresh guy every 45 seconds. It's good training because I had to really dig deep. The only problem is that I let emotion get the best of me by getting frustrated. That lunge forward was me trying to swing on empty with zero energy left, but it's not an excuse because even when I have zero energy I should still have focus and control. Jai Harman was leaning when he was fresh. lol. I think this is the one video that I watch the most because it's the only time where I really defeated myself.

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Well I have participated in those kind of drills. The mind can not work properly when the body is collapsing...... we're human. Again why the base building is more important in my book. I don't think you defeated yourself at all.... you reached your endurance limits.... nature took over simple as that....

My sparring partner used to be a boxer so he likes using his reach to jab and keep people on the outside. Unfortunate for me the only way I know how to close the gap is to attack low using my legs. I really don't know how to get in close with my fist when I'm sparring someone who is taller. That's something I'll need to work on.

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Closing the gap is a mental exercise.... the body is simply following direction.... However, the dynamics of TMA mental discipline are not easy to quick to develop... there's your challenge, IMHO... not that you failed to be superhuman or infallible...
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YOur opponent is a challenging one... And good boxing works... TMA is better but you have to have trained the proper TMA to get TMA better..... This is the huge TMA caveat....

yeah about kicks. The rules that day were that we couldn't use kicks or sweeps. That's why our kicks looked the way they did lol. I never know what the rules will be when I go spar with the students at that school. It's their place so we have to play with by their rules. I'll definitely take your comments into consideration because with out my legs, I have a really hard time trying to close the gap on someone taller.

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Yeah, I saw that tactical leg techniques... that was good tactics on both parts.... I mostly rely on hands 'cause I'm not all that a natural athlete.... I can nearly always get it done with linear punches....
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The beauty of the 1-steps, if you can develop the mental dimension.... is that a larger reach only becomes a mere annoyance.... Because you learn out to block and neutralize the opponents limbs... You block, remove the opponents limb as an obstacle or a threat... and counter into the vulnerable opening.... The fact that the Jai Harman vids don't really show that suggests TMA ability doesn't exist there....

To be honest I'm open suggestion on how to close the gap on a taller person without kicking.

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Well, first of all there are boxing methods to do this.... I know the TMA approach as a general rule.... Without the mental discipline.... the 1-steps don't really work.... that's the overriding caveat...
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I've put up 1-step karate videos a number of times here... but they haven't been popular on MT. I post a kata video, the 1st Taikyoku, as a start.

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It's so simple physically, yet so hard mentally to learn to do this more dynamically than your opponent can react.... that's the end working objective. Pardon the over-physical movements of the Shotokan female demo, it's endemic to how Shotokan is practiced... The mental discipline Shotokan lesson is do you moments like you mean them with strength & KIME. As opposed to the kickboxing Jai Harman vids where techniques are being winged out of posture and position, off balance...etc, etc, etc,,,
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Believe it or not,,, I step and strike all the time. I block & strike all the time, just like the kihon karte form in the vid above.... But I have the mental discipline to pull this off correctly by strong KIME, as well as whole basket of mental skills.... I mentally speed it up or slow it down as the situation calls for.... It's a mental process...
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EDIT: This female black belt does the opening correctly by Shotokan form, which is not a ritual or some artistic opening... which all most no one gets.... Tactically, she also does the bow correctly since she doesn't look down at the floor.... eyes always facing the action...
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EDIT2: Actually by Shotokan form, she is doing an excellent job of building the base TMA strengths in every move, everything she is doing in this beginner kata.... And no it's not for children....

 

[ShotoNoob]

To be honest I'm open suggestion on how to close the gap on a taller person without kicking.

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HERE'S A Tang soo Do rendition of 1-steps and closing the distance

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First, two criticisms, which 'cause TMA to stink, hence the Jai Harman approach to sparring so popular.
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Criticism #1: Ditch the 'awesome' attitude. TMA is not some fun, nifty, cool game where you can stroke you ego by doing cool stuff.... That is a lack of mental discipline... and the Girl Black Belt in the Shotokan,Taikyouku kata vid has the proper serious comportment.... Get serious, says Shotokan karate , even if they overdo it they are serious....
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Criticism #2: The opening movements of their 1-steps have zero mental discipline... they are just doing empty ritual.... The opening is critically important... it is not aestheitc art or some traditional hokey stuff... Get serious about understanding on what kata is conveying at every instant... what the purpose /objectives of TMA training are... They way these TKD black belts are proceeding... Jai Harman or your boxing brother is going to take their heads off and make MMA fools out of them....
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CASE 1 ON CLOSING THE DISTANCE: Now, take the very first 1-step... Partner steps IN on you partially closing the distance. You step AHEAD in an competently close the distance. His straight punch jab, whatever the hell he is striking is knocked up and out of the way. You strike middle to the vulnerable opening created.. That's the concept... this case, OPPONENT BEGINS TO MOVE IN YOU THEN MOVE AHEAD IN TO STRIKING RANGE AND SMASH HIM.
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CASE #2: YOUR OPPONENT STEPS IN MAYBE COMES AT YOU HARD... YOU STEP TO THE SIDE AND COUNTER AS HIS TECHNIQUE SAILS STRAIGHT AHEAD.. This i-step adopts evasion and re positioning. Active blocking defense is downplayed. Note you step ahead& engage, not back peddle all around the Octagon or duck and cover dancing in th boxing ring every time the opponent does something re the Jai Harman sparring vids...
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CASE 3 is an offshoot of #1; Active knife hand block is used as check block as opposed to the very basic high power block in CASE #1. Different block for different tactic objectives, different kind of punch it's up to you to match the blocks to the strikes effectively...
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Now, these are teaching the basic principles of where engaging will work.... What if the opponent hovers outside of range? ?Either you don't do anything, or you go on the offensive by taking the first move... when the opponent responds with whatever you go into 1s-tep mode.
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In your boxing brother example, and with his longer reach it's more challenging,,, but not much if you're mentally disciplined... Instead of handling the straight punch in the 1-steps, you use precisely the same principles to handle his jab -- namely you neutralize it through technique combined with a winning 1-step strategy... Can you develop the mental discipline advanced by the 1-step practices... to engage your boxing brother by faster thinking than he can react...?? that's the working objective of 1-step try to isolate out... though the same maxim is present in all TMA exercises...
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Around 1:30 we see a massive fail on the kick combo ' cause the defender is merely performing for the crowd... which is mouthing commentary & voicing expressions.... addin to a party atmosphere, not good. Doing 1-step like play time or recreational fun boys is as about as stupid by TMA as you can get... and these guys are black belts... They need to go over an take ie ENTIRE black-belt curriculum under the mental tutelage of the Shotokan Female doing the Taikyoku kata.
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No matter how many techniques or belt-tests they have taken... Jai Harman and your boxing brother are going to humiliate these guys acting like this..., pretty much....

 

[JowGaWolf]

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HERE'S A Tang soo Do rendition of 1-steps and closing the distance

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First, two criticisms, which 'cause TMA to stink, hence the Jai Harman approach to sparring so popular.
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Criticism #1: Ditch the 'awesome' attitude. TMA is not some fun, nifty, cool game where you can stroke you ego by doing cool stuff.... That is a lack of mental discipline... and the Girl Black Belt in the Shotokan,Taikyouku kata vid has the proper serious comportment.... Get serious, says Shotokan karate , even if they overdo it they are serious....
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Criticism #2: The opening movements of their 1-steps have zero mental discipline... they are just doing empty ritual.... The opening is critically important... it is not aestheitc art or some traditional hokey stuff... Get serious about understanding on what kata is conveying at every instant... what the purpose /objectives of TMA training are... They way these TKD black belts are proceeding... Jai Harman or your boxing brother is going to take their heads off and make MMA fools out of them....

I'll see what techniques there are in my fighting system that are similar and I'll give it a try. The good thing is that when sparring with them I can afford to take a few hits to the face when trying to learn how to use a technique, so if I make a mistake it won't be a costly one. The punch will hurt just enough to be a good lesson, but not enough to break my jaw or knock me out.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I'll see what techniques there are in my fighting system that are similar and I'll give it a try. The good thing is that when sparring with them I can afford to take a few hits to the face when trying to learn how to use a technique, so if I make a mistake it won't be a costly one. The punch will hurt just enough to be a good lesson, but not enough to break my jaw or knock me out.

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The mental discipline goal of the 1-steps is you develop the capability to do the hitting.... and to actively defend against the offensive moves of your opponent..... You don't get hit.... here's a kenpo version of 1-steps at full force.... Jeff Speakman Perfect Weapon.... Now kenpo depends on lightning speed... which is not necessary.... Kenpo to me is analogous to Leopard- style kung fu, in applied form... Shotokan by contrast is slow-moving Tiger. But Shotokan doesn't have to be as fast as Kenpo... it has to be more dynamic overall, so dynamic that the opponent can't handle or react fast enough... and that can be very fast...

Here's the YT vid,,, I really like the tactic STARTING @ 3:42. This is classic 1-step. Originally Speakman moves back against his opponent... I rarely ever move back.... I meet the attack and engage... He does, on the 3rd technique, take a stand & counter... not circle over all of the "MMA Octagon." Then he moves in on the second attack....I never use a spinning back fist cause simple kihon strikes smash just as good... and are less risky and more direct (the lesson of Taikyoku kata yet again.)t... I fight just like Speakman in that exchange... not at his kenpo pace....
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iN THAT Tactic, Speakman doesn't move his head, duck or cover... bob & weave. float a jab, wing a Jake Ellenberger overhand power right.... though some go high go low boxing combo feint then strike combo... it's all KIME-D to perfection....

 

[ShotoNoob]

I'll see what techniques there are in my fighting system that are similar and I'll give it a try. The good thing is that when sparring with them I can afford to take a few hits to the face when trying to learn how to use a technique, so if I make a mistake it won't be a costly one. The punch will hurt just enough to be a good lesson, but not enough to break my jaw or knock me out.

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I'm having a tough time finding kung fu versions... that's because kung fu historically was all forms.... TMU...IMO.. The Okinawan's later on broke kung fu down to make it easier to understand, train & learn... and apply.... problably some chinese martial artists did this with chinese kempo, tehe kenpo's as well.... Let the lineage experts figure that out...
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I finally typed in CMA fighting drills and this popped up.

Lot's of McDojoeee action going on... until you look closer and watch particular individuals.... This is TMA base building that makes the Shotokan Taikyoku kata look like TMA for dummies.... Again, the problem is the CMA base is far, far above the karate base. So it's much easier to go through the motions and get nothing whereas the Shotokan curriculum forces you to be serious... if you practice it the way it was intended by the founders... With Shotokan it is made obvious by the style that you exert a high level of effort.... With CMA,,,, one can end up doing aerobic-fu... and become an excellent ballerina that the Jai Harman's then wipes the floor with... The mental engagement of kung fu is much more intense and demanding than karate, much more.... much. much, much, much, more....
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EDIT: The stupid kicking shield drills @ Time 0:34 I would throw out the window.... this is modern sport crap.... great for sports-mined and wannabees...
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TIME 0.54: BAsic Kung fu drills including disciplined (key word) movement.... not bouncing, prancing, randomly herky jerky circling all over.... not boxing fancy footwork.... DISCIPLINE & POWER BUILDING... which incidentally are incorporated in simpler form in the 3rd Taikyouku kata (not for children).
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This CMA training is 100x harder than the karates as a group, for argument sake... For those doing it as a gym exercise, it is a total TMA loss.... It's all mental from day 1.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I'll give this a try. Drawing him in is the one thing that I didn't try. Even when I look at some of my earlier videos I can tell that I'm focused on "getting in." Thanks

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Here's a solid difference between boxing & sport fighting and TMA. I don't really care about getting my opponent to come in, or as you say actively drawing him in.... Trying to induce action in your opponent is more of a sport fighting tenant. Of course TMA doesn't rule this out.
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The lesson of 1-steps is that is isn't that you are trying to get your opponent to do something.... it's that when he does something, whatever he does, you can out act his action.
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If your boxing brother comes at me hard I will meet him with say an evasive action and then destroy him. If your boxing brother hovers out-of-range, I will advance on him and destroy him.... If your boxing brother stands in front of me and wait for me to make the 1st move, I can either continue to wait, or I can make the 1st move and destroy him....
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Whatever the opponent does, you are prepared to take action and destroy him.... This is why I don't use feints... I take action that the opponent can't cope with, can't withstand... the Jeff Speakman 1-step THE PERFECT WEAPON. No guessing games... no trick, tricky,,,, It's KIME and it's over very quickly....

Here's the much easier & more physical Shotokan version of closing the distance on Boxing Brother... all done with the same stance and movement principles in Shotokan karate kihon, kata & kumite exercises.. sometimes over-hyped IMO... but again that's endemic to the style and how they adapt to actual application... One can always take up 100x harder kung fu
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Where's the cat & mouse we see in your sparring videos,,, the Jai Harman sparring videos????
ANSWER: THERE IS NONE!!!!!!. IT'S ALL SIMPLIFIED TIGER KUNG FU....
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Boxing brother... Jai Harman"""" WC""""?????. good luck against that.....

 

[ShotoNoob]

JaGow, you though you were frustrated from your sparring session.... now you have a taste of frustration of dealing with me.... my poor opponents in class...
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Here's ronda rousey training under Edmond Tarverdyan, who the latter in my opinion is a decent professional MMA fighter...
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By boxing standards... this is solid training... By TMA standards it is garbage.

How does what i do stack up against a boxer hitting hard and fast.... it's difficult. It all boils down to my mental discipline over physical athletics.. the latter which Ronda excels...
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If Ronda is punching fast I have to act faster in effect. I have to use the combination of principles and tactics in 1-steps to out move her speed & strength...
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The 1-step approach works once you realize from the very first one, that your opponent's 1st real offense move either leaves an opening, or creates an opportunity which you can actively use to create an opening.... My treatise on 1-steps oversimplified... you must be mentally adept enough to see this & mentally disciplined enough to act on this... If you can not muster to the latter, 1-steps are a complete waste of time & effort.... as is TMA of any kind IMO...
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In that case, then one should go over and sign up with Edmond or Jai...... that's my position on sparring....
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Good luck....

 

[JowGaWolf]

The lesson of 1-steps is that is isn't that you are trying to get your opponent to do something.... it's that when he does something, whatever he does, you can out act his action.

This is different from how I fight even when sparring. My goal is to control the fight mentally and physically. The punches that my opponent are by my choosing and not his. I'm ahead of the fight when I know what punches are going to be thrown. My reaction is based on what I see before it comes instead of what I see when it comes. The better I can do these things the faster and more deadlier I'll be. The last thing I want to do in a fight is to be trying to guess what is going to come at me. I rather bait than wait.

You also have to keep in mind that in the video we weren't allowed to kick, because the Sanda school only wanted to work on punches and hand take downs. I'm fine if I can use my legs. So I'm asking from a sporting perspective and not a self defense one. The videos that you are showing are from people who are the same height. Not only that but some of the videos are from movies, which means you have to be careful of where a technique may exist vs one that doesn't.

Here's one from bruce lee fighting someone taller than he is. In the movie he closes the gap by using his legs.

The same approach is taken here

I understand those 2 things because I know it works really well on tall people. I got video showing me easily closing the distance.
This won't work because if you notice his slips the punch but still doesn't reach the body. He reaches the pad but the bad isn't the body.

I know most boxers will slip the jab and then defend the follow up punch fit if it comes while still moving in. Each time closes the gap, I want to have something that's closer to martial arts before I try something else that's in a totally different martial arts system

Oh and for the record Jai Harman isn't tall so I'll be good to go with closing the gap on someone like that even if kicking wasn't allowed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm having a tough time finding kung fu versions.

You won't find much on kung fu in terms of using actual kung fu technique (for the reason you stated many only do forms competition).

aerobic-fu

I definitely don't have to worry about this happening with me.

The stupid kicking shield drills @ Time 0:34 I would throw out the window

My school only does this type of drill when we want to kick something solid and for conditioning for the impact that occurs on the kicking leg. Other than that we kick each other without the pads because we use techniques that attack kicking leg. The only way the students can learn the techniques is to actually have someone try to kick them. The better the students get the harder the opponent can kick.

By boxing standards... this is solid training... By TMA standards it is garbage.

Students at my school doesn't do this type of training either. We punch heavy bags and pads without the gloves because it teaches proper punching technique. One of the students took tkd for about 6 years and he punched the a pad the wrong way and it took a little skin off the knuckles. This happened because the punch was incorrect. No matter what angle I punch my target all of the force needs to go into my target. The heavy bad teaches the same lesson. Punching without gloves teaches correct punching technique and delivers more power. It's also good for conditioning the hands.

She has great hand an eye coordination, but in Jow Ga we accept that we are going to get hit by a couple of punches and because of this acceptance we condition our bodies to be able to resist the impact better. A hard punch or hard kick is only good if it lands solid so if a person will be ok with taking a hard shot if they can prevent it from landing solid.

If Ronda is punching fast I have to act faster in effect

For me. it's more like: If Ronda is punching fast then I have to start my action before she starts hers. If I can do this then I don't have to be fast. I just have to read her attacks well enough to act before she throws her punch.

I think you are underestimating the value of sparring.

 

[drop bear]

I think you are underestimating the value of sparring

Just to put you on the right page here. His stance is that kime puts you on a plane of existence that makes you above physical techniques.

So sparring becomes a pointless exercise.
Eg. This.

That you develop an awareness so in tune that you understand the system rather than just compete with the other guy.

Look I think it would be cool if you could pull it off. I don't think you can.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just to put you on the right page here. His stance is that kime puts you on a plane of existence that makes you above physical techniques.

So sparring becomes a pointless exercise.
Eg. This.

That you develop an awareness so in tune that you understand the system rather than just compete with the other guy.

Look I think it would be cool if you could pull it off. I don't think you can.

Jow Ga doesn't have that much zen if any. So far the perspective of Jow Ga Sifu's have been more along this line:

If I show a video of Monday's training then you would see this same attitude lol.

 

[Dinkydoo]

Apparently he also has free reign to call MMA practitioners fools and claim that Kungfu > Karate and TMAs are better than > Combat Sports

 

[drop bear]

Apparently he also has free reign to call MMA practitioners fools and claim that Kungfu > Karate and TMAs are better than > Combat Sports

Well obviously. Mma is not as good as matrix powers. Stands to reason.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Apparently he also has free reign to call MMA practitioners fools and claim that Kungfu > Karate and TMAs are better than > Combat Sports

???assuming this is to shotonoob.