Vice President Dick Cheney Shoots Hunting Colleague

[michaeledward]

The third person in the hunting group was a Texas woman that is currently serving as an Ambassador to Switzerland; Pamela Willeford. She was apparently appointed to the Texas board of higher education by Governor Bush.

She made a statement that indicates the Vice President might have had the sun in his eyes as he was shooting.

Adding to the account, Willeford told Cox news service that "the sun was behind Whittington as well, possibly making him more difficult to see."

 

[7starmantis]

I think many great points have been posted here. I also think the refering to Cheney as "Deadeye Dick" would be a great idea!! I can find the humor in it being that everyone is fine. Its an accident, plain and simple. If an olympic javelin thrower stuck a javelin through an official on the field would be bann him/her from competing again? (Hint: We haven't in the past) The javelin thrower can actually see the people on the field too.

I think its an accident that apparently everyone has learned from and if the unfortunate man who was shot can accept his own responsibility and not be upset I'm inclinded to accept it.

Just my few cents....
7sm

 

[sgtmac_46]

The real error, possibly, in the whole situation is allowing by-standers to accompany the VP on these type of outings. The more gawkers you have standing around, the more chances you have of having this sort of accident.

I have to wonder how many people Presidents and VP's in the past winged someone and we never heard about. What's a little birdshot between friends, anyway?

 

[michaeledward]

The Vice President was cited for hunting without the proper game stamp affixed to his license. (PWC 43.652). The incident report also shows 'unknown' to the Hunter Education Certificate which is required to hunt in Texas.

The document is available at www.thesmokinggun.com

 

[sgtmac_46]

The Vice President was cited for hunting without the proper game stamp affixed to his license. (PWC 43.652). The incident report also shows 'unknown' to the Hunter Education Certificate which is required to hunt in Texas.

The document is available at www.thesmokinggun.com

A written warning, actually.

Also, mikey, the state of Texas only requires hunter's education if you're born on or AFTER September 2, 1971......I think Cheney's a little older than that.

It's funny when a guy's statements don't match his supporting documentation.

Also, the Kennedy Sheriff's department investigated, and said this....

"The investigation reveals that there was no alcohol, or misconduct involved in the incident. Mr. Whittington's interview collaborated Vice President Cheney's statement. This Department is fully satisfied that this was no more than a hunting accident"

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0213061cheney3.html

 

[kelly keltner]

The Vice President was cited for hunting without the proper game stamp affixed to his license. (PWC 43.652). The incident report also shows 'unknown' to the Hunter Education Certificate which is required to hunt in Texas.

The document is available at www.thesmokinggun.com

I'm not an expert but I think that a hunter education certificate is most likely what you get when you attend a hunter safety class. The website states that you are not required to take that class in Texas unless you were born after 1971-72. So the fact that it was marked unknown is a moot point at best.
kk
I just posted this and it looks like SGTMAC beat me to the punch.

 

[michaeledward]

Well, thank you for pointing out the age requirement to be taking a hunter education class.

The Press Release from the Kenedy Sherrif's department does not indicate the 'investigation' went any further than a phone coversation with the Vice President's Secret Service staff, and a phone call to Mr. Whittington.

I believe I saw reports that indicated the Secret Service would not allow the local police department to interview the Vice President.

I am not suggesting a conspiracy theory. Just pointing out that, perhaps, a courtesy is being extended to the Vice President that would not be extended to other citizens (like not notifying the public for a day).

Correction & Update - Kenedy County deputy Sherriff Sanmiguel did interview the Vice President on Saturday evening, according to the New York Times. Also, the Vice President has mailed the $7.00 for the correct Game Bird Stamp - you know, I once asked a Massachusetts Conservation Officer what he would do if I did not have my license properly displayed while fishing ... His answer was direct "I'ld arrest you". - It's good to be Vice President.

Correction & Update 2 - There is a discrepincy - The Associated Press is reporting that Deputy Sherrif Sanmiguel, did not interview the Vice President until Sunday Morning, according to the Secret Service Spokesperson. Apparently, when Sanmiguel was turned away from the ranch on Saturday evening.

 

[michaeledward]

The Charlotte Observer has an interesting article on hunting and Vice President this morning.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/opinion/13866143.htm

Cheney ignored safe hunting procedures

Bird hunters should use dogs and fewer guns -- and leave car behind

SCOTT DENHAM

Special to the Observer

Aspects of Vice President Dick Cheney's quail hunt make ethical hunters and hunter safety instructors cringe.
....
Cheney's hunting party broke several basic rules: too many in the hunt party; no dog, or at least not having the dog retrieve a downed bird; hunting from a vehicle. And Cheney broke some of the most basic rules: shooting at a low bird and not being aware of the placement of his hunting party members.

 

[punisher73]

I once asked a Massachusetts Conservation Officer what he would do if I did not have my license properly displayed while fishing ... His answer was direct "I'ld arrest you". - It's good to be Vice President.

Whatever on that one. The laws are going to vary state to state as well as with officer to officer. In Michigan they site you a ticket for not having a fishing license, let alone for having a license that just wasn't properly displayed. Also, alot of cops will give you a "worst case" scenario to weed out the people who try to find out might happen as to weigh whether or not they should commit the crime/infraction. I now I've done that in the past.

I think alot of the nonhunters are also mistaking bird hunting with deer hunting. In deer hunting you are shooting at a stationary target most of the time with a SINGLE projectile. When you are bird hunting you are using MULTIPLE projectiles that SPREAD out on the point of aim. That means that even if your point of aim is clear in that area you could still hit other things due to the spread of it.

If the guy came up into the hunting area unannounced it is presumed by hunters that the area is still safe. That is why it is SOO important to announce where you are at so the others will know that direction is not clear. This wasn't the Wedding Crashers where the guy was standing right in front of him and Cheney just got trigger happy, this is a case where a hunter did not follow proper procedure and an accident happened.

 

[michaeledward]

More "Blame the Victim" ... geesh.

I thought the Republican Party was the party of law and order; you know, punish the offender. It's supposed to be the 'bleeding heart liberals' who want to 'understand' and 'treat' the criminal.

Now, it seems they all want to give the guy who a) broke the law b) exercised poor judgement and c) pulled the trigger, a pass.



Oh, and P.S. - I have occassionally fished at this private resort myself; www.wildernessadventureshunt.com They do upland bird hunting. So, I am a bit familiar with the methods and techniques of bird hunting.

 

[Martial Tucker]

More "Blame the Victim" ... geesh.

I thought the Republican Party was the party of law and order; you know, punish the offender.

Sure, punish the offender when HE BREAKS THE LAW. I don't believe any charges have been filed or laws have been broken.
I have gone on record as saying I am not a Cheney fan, and I will go further and say that regardless of the lapse in hunting protocol by the victim, the fault in this incident is primarily with Cheney.
Having said that, is it necessary to review AGAIN the fact that this was a simple ACCIDENT?
Accidents unfortunately happen......to BOTH Democrats and Republicans.
But it will be a cold day in hell when you launch a hysterical thread ranting
about lifetime punishment the next time a prominent Democrat has an accident in which an innocent person is injured.
You want to ban Cheney from hunting for life? Fine, then as was mentioned yesterday, then take away Ted Kennedy's drivers license for life. His accident KILLED someone, and he just ran and hid. I don't hear you talking about that.
As I stated yesterday, if you can't be objective, your hysteria becomes mere noise.

 

[kenpojujitsu]

"3) The lawyer who got shot did not make his whereabouts known to Cheney his friend. The fault would lie with the shootee, not the shooter."

This is essentially, correct. Although the guy who was shot walked ahead to get his bird. He went arounf and came back in a different direction. They had no way of knowing where he was. Cheney tracked his bird and shot in a different direction than the other guy went. Cheney shot and the guy got sprayed with bird shot.

It was an accident that is really both of thier faults. But as usual, the democrats in the media have blown it all out of proportion and refuse to tell the story fully and correctly.

I also have to laugh at the way the left wing media fired off all those stupid questions and Scott McCLellan (finally) told one of the them to stop being a jerk. They need to be told that on a dalily basis.

The jerks were demanding to know why it took more than an hour for someone to inform the President. It never dawned on them that perhaps as the Preisident he may have been busy and they wanted to get some facts straight before they pulled him out of a meeting to tell him. Being that it was not a serious wound the story took less presidence over things like the war, nuclear tensions in Iran, the economy, etc, etc, etc.

When Ted Kennedy killed someone the democrats banned together to protect him - and still do to this day. This drunken killer is still a hero to the democrats, never went to jail, still has a drivers license and will be in the Senate as long as he wants to be. Cheney has an accident where the victim not only survives, but is not seriously wounded and the jacka$$$$ start calling for him to resign.

 

[arnisador]

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2006/02/14/ap2525155.html

The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department issued a report Monday that found the main factor contributing to the accident was a "hunter's judgment factor." No other secondary factors were found to have played a role.

The department gave Cheney and the victim, prominent Republican attorney Harry Whittington, warning citations for breaking Texas hunting law by failing to buy a $7 stamp allowing them to shoot upland game birds. A department spokesman said warnings are being issued in most cases because the stamp requirement only went into effect five months ago and many hunters weren't aware of it.

Hmmm, it doesn't clearly say whether the hunter was Dick Cheney or his victim.

But the accident raised questions about Cheney's adherence to hunting safety practices and the White House's failure to disclose the accident in a timely way.

Several hunting safety experts interviewed agreed it would have been a good idea for Whittington to announce himself. But every expert stressed that the shooter is responsible for avoiding other people.

The article notes that the White House has taken the tack of joking about the incident. My morning paper had several jokes from various late-night shows in it.

 

[michaeledward]

One might assume that the owner of the Ranch would be fully familiar with any and all Texas Parks and Wildlife Laws. That Ms. Armstrong allowed the hunt to proceed on her property without the hunters having the correct licensing just adds another level of riduculousness to the case.

When I travelled to Lac Terney in Quebec last fall, the first thing we did when our plane landed, was to complete the licensing process. Not only did we have to fill out and sign the correct paperwork. We had to forewarn the camp what type of license we were purchasing and make all payments prior to arriving at the camp.

 

[michaeledward]

The Doctors are now reporting Mr. Whittington had a heart attack after some of the birdshot entered his heart ...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Wow, let's hope that he recovers fully!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[shesulsa]

I've never hunted game or fowl, only fish and I must ask some questions that just seem logical to me ....

And I understand there is hunting ettiquette, but I also understand there is basic firearm safety, all of which I do not pretend to know.

1. If you don't know where a member of your hunting party is, why, again is it okay to fire?

2. If a member of your hunting party is in the brush ... why again is it okay to take the shot?

3. If you haven't cleared your field of vision in that split second before firing on prey, or you're shooting into the sun, why again is it okay to take the shot?

I know these seem to be leading questions, but I think I can ascertain what happened with the other party (until/unless he wakes up).

Just asking. Thanks.

 

[shesulsa]

When Ted Kennedy killed someone the democrats banned together to protect him - and still do to this day. This drunken killer is still a hero to the democrats, never went to jail, still has a drivers license and will be in the Senate as long as he wants to be. Cheney has an accident where the victim not only survives, but is not seriously wounded and the jacka$$$$ start calling for him to resign.

FYI - not all democrats like Kennedy purely because of this issue. And I sure seem to recall that some dems calling for his resignation ... I'll see if I can dig that one up in my spare time.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

Because of who he is nothing will be done about it. First rule to hunting (I am experience in what they teach in PA because dad taught hunters education for 12 years.), is to LOOK before you shoot.

Next he did not have a license to hunt .... why is everyone making excuses for his stupid act. Yes it may have been an accident, but it was also stupidy on the part of Cheney. Its interesting to see people defend even those kind of things when it comes to their political party.

 

[modarnis]

I've never hunted game or fowl, only fish and I must ask some questions that just seem logical to me ....

And I understand there is hunting ettiquette, but I also understand there is basic firearm safety, all of which I do not pretend to know.

1. If you don't know where a member of your hunting party is, why, again is it okay to fire?

2. If a member of your hunting party is in the brush ... why again is it okay to take the shot?

3. If you haven't cleared your field of vision in that split second before firing on prey, or you're shooting into the sun, why again is it okay to take the shot?

I know these seem to be leading questions, but I think I can ascertain what happened with the other party (until/unless he wakes up).

Just asking. Thanks.

Answer to all 3, as a hunter who hunts birds regularly is It isn't safe to shoot in those situations.

In response to the unlicensed comment by a subsequent poster. He had the hunting license, but not the bird stamp. Somewhat side arguments to the real issue which is know where your target is and where your shot might go before you pull the trigger