Thirty Percent of Troops Suffering From Mental Disorders

[hardheadjarhead]

The Army Surgeon General's report on the issue was just released:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/iraq_us_military_health



Regards,


Steve

 

[MA-Caver]

You'd think they'd figure out that these things will happen back when Vietnam era troops were coming home and "PTSD" was first coined.
But then they could've figured it out during the Korean War when it was called "Operational Exhaustion."
Or even back during WWII when it was called "Battle Fatigue."
Maybe way back during the first world war when it was called simply "Shell-Shock."
But even before this war they had "Gulf War Syndrome."

You send a bunch of young guys to "grow up" (some are still under 20 yrs old) and live in an environment where killing and trying not to be killed is part of an everyday thing for a tour of duty... and expect them to come home okay?

 

[TonyM.]

I'd take any statistics issued by mental heath proffesionals with a grain of salt, good, bad or indifferent. The mental health game is the poster child for self fulfilling prophesy.

 

[Tgace]

IMO, about that many people in the general population have "issues" anyway.

 

[OUMoose]

IMO, about that many people in the general population have "issues" anyway.

Most likely, but the general population probably didn't have a direct cause to their "issues".

 

[shesulsa]

Most likely, but the general population probably didn't have a direct cause to their "issues".

Oh ... I dunno about that. I think everyone has a story - there's probably a WHOLE LOT more stuff that goes on "out there" than we all think.

 

[Tgace]

If you only new. Prozac makes the world go round.

 

[Tgace]

Something ive always wondered about PTSD. Is it a result of civilized society? Back in the "old days" of routine barbarism, invasions, Wars, Viking raids, public executions, "burn, rape and pillage", etc. etc. was everybody suffering from mental disorders?

Is it because we have the good fortune of it being fairly rare in most "modern" societies to have to suffer such things that it now scars us for life when we do? Im not really an expert on the topic and not making a judgemnt. Just throwing it out there.

 

[shesulsa]

My BB dissertation was on PTSD. (wish I still had it)

There have always been people who couldn't get over things- most people can, but some can't. People have forever been saying, "ever since so-and-so died, she just ain't been right in the head" or "he hasn't been the same since" or something to that effect. The military was the first to coin it, if I recall correctly, but not the first to notice it nor analyze it, though the earliest published studies you will find will probably be from the military.

 

[Tgace]

So in the "old days" those who "couldnt take it" just...well...didnt?

Its probably similar to the crime rate issue where its tough to determine if crime has in fact gone up or if reporting it has just gone up huh?

 

[sgtmac_46]

I thought I had PTSD once...turns out I was just really hungover.

 

[shesulsa]

So in the "old days" those who "couldnt take it" just...well...didnt?

Its probably similar to the crime rate issue where its tough to determine if crime has in fact gone up or if reporting it has just gone up huh?

The statistics that I researched recorded variations in the percentage of the affected population of between an 8% estimate and a 35% estimate.

And, no, those who couldn't take it didn't - just like today, except now we have pharmaceuticals and the "talking cure" ... sorry, did you think the average factory worker who lost a limb in WWI went to therapy 3 X per week?

 

[sgtmac_46]

The statistics that I researched recorded variations in the percentage of the affected population of between an 8% estimate and a 35% estimate.

And, no, those who couldn't take it didn't - just like today, except now we have pharmaceuticals and the "talking cure" ... sorry, did you think the average factory worker who lost a limb in WWI went to therapy 3 X per week?

The irony is that PTSD affects people far more in relation to actions they take, than what occurs to them. A person who loses an arm will likely have less of a chance of having PTSD than one who accidentally kills someone. PTSD and guilt are linked in a very strong way.

When you couple guilt with a bad experience, you increase it's effect exponentially. We might recover from something bad happening, but couple that feeling with the thought that what we have done makes us a bad person, and you get PTSD. Being put in a situation where you take another persons life is one of the most likely events to cause PTSD.

 

[Tgace]

The statistics that I researched recorded variations in the percentage of the affected population of between an 8% estimate and a 35% estimate.

And, no, those who couldn't take it didn't - just like today, except now we have pharmaceuticals and the "talking cure" ... sorry, did you think the average factory worker who lost a limb in WWI went to therapy 3 X per week?

LOL no, I guess not. And Wow! Thats a big variation.

I thought I heard somewhere that the military was actually discovering that, in cases like amputees, when the person (if they desire it) is able to go back and still serve even with a prostetic limb, they suffer less mental harm. And going with what Sgt. said I also think Ive read somewhere that there is a corrleation between public support and treatment of returning soldiers to PTSD cases.

 

[sgtmac_46]

LOL no, I guess not. And Wow! Thats a big variation.

I thought I heard somewhere that the military was actually discovering that, in cases like amputees, when the person (if they desire it) is able to go back and still serve even with a prostetic limb, they suffer less mental harm. And going with what Sgt. said I also think Ive read somewhere that there is a corrleation between public support and treatment of returning soldiers to PTSD cases.

One of the circumstances that resulted in such a high incidence of PTSD in Vietnam was the method the military used to rotate troops. Replacements were brought in, and soldiers were taken out piecemeal. That led to a lot of guilt being experienced by soldiers who were forced to leave buddies behind to uncertain fates. It helps when units are taken out and put in wholesale. That way you enter combat with your friends and leave with them as well. Of course if you are wounded, you are removed from combat, leaving your friends behind, and a large amount of guilt is present in that equation. Far from being relieved at being removed from a dangerous situation, many soldiers feel as if they have abandoned their comrades.

That's why men in tight-nit units throughout history left hospitals prematurely to return to the front.

 

[Tgace]

I also recall reading (Grossman I believe) that there is a correlation between a strong religious faith (gasp!) and resisting PTSD. Probably associated with the guilt issue mentioned earlier.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I also recall reading (Grossman I believe) that there is a correlation between a strong religious faith (gasp!) and resisting PTSD. Probably associated with the guilt issue mentioned earlier.

It's all about validation. Also, Grossman pointed out that there existed 2 to 3 percent of the population who could engage in combat without long term psychological effects, no matter how intense the violence. Many of these guys are the high speed/low drag type of highly self-assured, self-motivated individuals we often see concentrated in elite units (though, even in elite units they aren't a majority). These guys are the natural born soldiers. For the other 97% of the population, combat is something that can either only be engaged in after conditioning, under duress, or not at all.

 

[shesulsa]

Yeah, Tom, I learned a WHOLE bunch of stuff I didn't know about PTSD, but I'm moving and will have to wait a little while before I post more substantially to share that stuff. Sorry.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I also recall reading (Grossman I believe) that there is a correlation between a strong religious faith (gasp!) and resisting PTSD. Probably associated with the guilt issue mentioned earlier.

Ah, Grossman...he who references as data "All Quiet On the Western Front," apparently not realizing its a novel.

Grossman's observation that two to three percent of the population can engage in combat without long term psychological effects is likely correct. A number will be sociopathic and get a thrill from killing...and then there will be the elite, who could be sociopathic--or not--but who crave the stimulation of the hunt.

Looks like he has a new book coming out...co-authored with a member of MT:

http://www.killology.com/book_oncombat_summary.htm


Regards,


Steve

 

[still learning]

Hello, Why 30 percent? simple..?

Why do we draft 18 years olds or recruit? Because they are willing to take orders from their leaders, without question the orders. Too young to know better. 30 percent or more are not mental ready for the killings and seeing their buddies kill in front of them. They are just kids out of high schools.

Most armies recruit young man/women for these reasons. Too young to question their leaders and are willing to do what they are told to do. Yes sir!

At 18 many times you feel grown-up and at the same time you are growing up. Wars are not (the killings) things we grew up with and to accept it fate.
When it is for real and you are there in the middle of it and knowning you can get kill anytime? cause lots of drama for one self.

Today most the US army knows the lenght of time in actual combat is one year for most recruits, before they get more mental brake down of the man. Some grow to love the adrenline response/fear and sign-up again and again. The rush!

No I did not go to any wars....but I lost many friends in Viet-nam. 70's. and I was in National Guard than..............also four years of High school ROTC and was planning to go regular army. My ROTC instructor was promote to Major and sent to Viet-nam, that year I was to grad and was kill in a helicopter crash(shot down),(he had a family with two small girls).......Leader of the world love wars.....people don't ..........Aloha