Themed classes vs. General all-bases class

[_Simon_]

Why do my thread titles have a this vs/over that trend! Am I that divided??

Anyway, I was curious about your thoughts MT folk.

As I'm exploring and trialling new styles I've noticed some schools have timetables with specific themed classes, and others will just have general training (in which you generally cover all bases).

Is anyone here a fan of one over the other? On the one hand, specific themed classes (eg, kata class Tuesdays, basics Thursdays, sparring Fridays etc) is much more focused, and you can really devote alot of practice to very specific aspects. But it may mean you miss out on training important aspects of the art, as they may be on nights you just can't make. These tend to be one hour classes too, which is cool, but sometimes doesn't feel long enough.

Does anyone here that teaches have a themed timetable, and I'd love to hear if you've found it more beneficial for the students compared to general classes?

Perhaps the more fulltime schools are able to have themed nights, and ones that rent out places for only a few nights a week have to do more general classes..

I think I'm a fan of the more general classes so far...

Curious as to your thoughts!


Ps. And I know bringing this up may get me beaten or killed in self defense... but I'm willing to take that risk! (Thoroughly have enjoyed recent threads XD)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why do my thread titles have a this vs/over that trend! Am I that divided??

Anyway, I was curious about your thoughts MT folk.

As I'm exploring and trialling new styles I've noticed some schools have timetables with specific themed classes, and others will just have general training (in which you generally cover all bases).

Is anyone here a fan of one over the other? On the one hand, specific themed classes (eg, kata class Tuesdays, basics Thursdays, sparring Fridays etc) is much more focused, and you can really devote alot of practice to very specific aspects. But it may mean you miss out on training important aspects of the art, as they may be on nights you just can't make. These tend to be one hour classes too, which is cool, but sometimes doesn't feel long enough.

Does anyone here that teaches have a themed timetable, and I'd love to hear if you've found it more beneficial for the students compared to general classes?

Perhaps the more fulltime schools are able to have themed nights, and ones that rent out places for only a few nights a week have to do more general classes..

I think I'm a fan of the more general classes so far...

Curious as to your thoughts!


Ps. And I know bringing this up may get me beaten or killed in self defense... but I'm willing to take that risk! (Thoroughly have enjoyed recent threads XD)

You mostly covered the bases in your OP. If I had a larger school and more time slots, I’d have some themed classes. If I had some associate instructors and a large space, I’d offer multiple classes in the same time slot (general and themed at the same time), to avoid folks having to settle for a theme class just because it fit their schedule.

Thèmes I’d offer:

• Pure Nihon Goshin Aikido (focus on NGA classical forms)
• Strikes (including sparring)
• Ground work (this would evolve over time, or I’d need someone else to teach it)
• Weapons
• Fitness

 

[_Simon_]

You mostly covered the bases in your OP. If I had a larger school and more time slots, I’d have some themed classes. If I had some associate instructors and a large space, I’d offer multiple classes in the same time slot (general and themed at the same time), to avoid folks having to settle for a theme class just because it fit their schedule.

Thèmes I’d offer:

• Pure Nihon Goshin Aikido (focus on NGA classical forms)
• Strikes (including sparring)
• Ground work (this would evolve over time, or I’d need someone else to teach it)
• Weapons
• Fitness

Thanks Gerry, and what a great idea having them in the same timeslot! Or even just set nights, but one after the other, but of course the timing still may not suit some..

 

[dvcochran]

Why do my thread titles have a this vs/over that trend! Am I that divided??

Anyway, I was curious about your thoughts MT folk.

As I'm exploring and trialling new styles I've noticed some schools have timetables with specific themed classes, and others will just have general training (in which you generally cover all bases).

Is anyone here a fan of one over the other? On the one hand, specific themed classes (eg, kata class Tuesdays, basics Thursdays, sparring Fridays etc) is much more focused, and you can really devote alot of practice to very specific aspects. But it may mean you miss out on training important aspects of the art, as they may be on nights you just can't make. These tend to be one hour classes too, which is cool, but sometimes doesn't feel long enough.

Does anyone here that teaches have a themed timetable, and I'd love to hear if you've found it more beneficial for the students compared to general classes?

Perhaps the more fulltime schools are able to have themed nights, and ones that rent out places for only a few nights a week have to do more general classes..

I think I'm a fan of the more general classes so far...

Curious as to your thoughts!


Ps. And I know bringing this up may get me beaten or killed in self defense... but I'm willing to take that risk! (Thoroughly have enjoyed recent threads XD)

I see advantages in both. If you are diligent I feel "general" classes give you the full flavor or the style. If you are struggling in a given are or been out for a while I can see where themed classes would have an advantage. However I do feel some of the themed structure is part of being a senior belt helping others advance.

 

[_Simon_]

I see advantages in both. If you are diligent I feel "general" classes give you the full flavor or the style. If you are struggling in a given are or been out for a while I can see where themed classes would have an advantage. However I do feel some of the themed structure is part of being a senior belt helping others advance.

Yeah for sure, definitely advantages in both. Whatever style I commit to it would be nice to have balanced training and not feel like I'm missing out.. unless I mix it up each week, and say one week I go to the kata class, then the next week sparring etc, but keep basics as a constant I go to every week..?

OR two weeks of this, two weeks of that..?

Ahhh I can see the training-program-design mind coming in and getting excited now haha... (I can see how I could overcomplicate this too, probably best to ask the instructor what would be a good way to go about it )

 

[pdg]

From a student perspective...

We have some themed classes, but not the same night every week, or even every week.

Once a month we have sparring night which is the only (mostly) regularly scheduled thing - but then that's not the only sparring time either.

Personally, I'd like some more 'theming' so that I know there's going to be dedicated time for certain things, but judging by how many people don't turn up for sparring I'm sure there'd be absentees from any other announced theme too.

 

[marques]

Themes is nice if there are many students. Or trying to. Some classes can be for some levels only (sparring...). Themes also help you preparing mentally, and preparing your training equipment.

As student, I would pickup the ones I prefer. Then, instructors would made me go to the others I am lacking (classes and skill) and I would end up going there everyday and paying a fortune.

Actually, I don’t know what is better in my opinion. General classes may give us a more integrated idea of the art, rather a sum of distinct parts. I don’t know.

It is a good question (so I put in some thoughts in) but I think both ways are fine, perhaps a mix of them would be the very best.

 

[_Simon_]

Yeah some great points there... and yeah even mostly going to the ones you prefer and the instructor can then down the track say you need to work on this, this and this is a good idea!

I'm also on the fence about it, pros and cons each way huh..

 

[Headhunter]

Personally I prefer general classes. I couldn't do an hour and a half-2 hours just doing forms. I prefer to mix it up keeps it fresh and interesting instead of doing the same thing all session. That's just my preference though and I can see the benefits of both

 

[_Simon_]

Personally I prefer general classes. I couldn't do an hour and a half-2 hours just doing forms. I prefer to mix it up keeps it fresh and interesting instead of doing the same thing all session. That's just my preference though and I can see the benefits of both

Yeah I quite like general classes too, and how they're mixed, but also how you get a chance to learn how things integrate together overall

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thanks Gerry, and what a great idea having them in the same timeslot! Or even just set nights, but one after the other, but of course the timing still may not suit some..

When I visited 4 Seasons (where @Tony Dismukes teaches), they had multiple classes running at once. It's a large warehouse-ish space with 2 cages (one raised, one just on mats), a mounted platform with mats, and more. They can probably run 4-5 small classes at once. It's a bit noisy for me - I'm not used to the environment - but that's something that can be handled. I just really liked the idea that a member could go there and train one of three things at a given time. Or they could just show up and use the exercise equipment they had set up, or play on the thousand or so heavy bags hanging along one side, without interfering with a class.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah for sure, definitely advantages in both. Whatever style I commit to it would be nice to have balanced training and not feel like I'm missing out.. unless I mix it up each week, and say one week I go to the kata class, then the next week sparring etc, but keep basics as a constant I go to every week..?

OR two weeks of this, two weeks of that..?

Ahhh I can see the training-program-design mind coming in and getting excited now haha... (I can see how I could overcomplicate this too, probably best to ask the instructor what would be a good way to go about it )

From an instructor's perspective, this can be accomplished within the "general" classes, too. I often have a theme for the month. So, one month, we'll spend a portion of every class working on ground work. Another month, we might work with boxing-type drills for 30 minutes a class. Another we might spend 20 minutes of every class on freestyle grappling. The "theme" is given most of the organized chunk of time (where everyone is working the same thing), including whatever drills I use to lead into the activity or as a result of what I see in it. If I don't get carried away, then there's still time for folks to have some free time to work on whatever they need to focus on (most recent techniques, etc.).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Personally I prefer general classes. I couldn't do an hour and a half-2 hours just doing forms. I prefer to mix it up keeps it fresh and interesting instead of doing the same thing all session. That's just my preference though and I can see the benefits of both

I never thought I'd be interested in spending more than 20 minutes on forms, either practicing or teaching. I've found I can do either for the full 90 minutes of a class. Maybe your forms are just boring.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah I quite like general classes too, and how they're mixed, but also how you get a chance to learn how things integrate together overall

I definitely wouldn't be interested in NOT having general classes. No matter how many themes you add (unless the "themes" are actually separate arts, which is an entirely different thing), you need normal classes that tie them together. Students who aren't interested in tying them together wouldn't have to attend (say, someone only really wants to study weapons), but it should be part of the curriculum.

 

[_Simon_]

From an instructor's perspective, this can be accomplished within the "general" classes, too. I often have a theme for the month. So, one month, we'll spend a portion of every class working on ground work. Another month, we might work with boxing-type drills for 30 minutes a class. Another we might spend 20 minutes of every class on freestyle grappling. The "theme" is given most of the organized chunk of time (where everyone is working the same thing), including whatever drills I use to lead into the activity or as a result of what I see in it. If I don't get carried away, then there's still time for folks to have some free time to work on whatever they need to focus on (most recent techniques, etc.).

Ah that's a great idea have a specialised focus and change that from month to month, I like it.

I never thought I'd be interested in spending more than 20 minutes on forms, either practicing or teaching. I've found I can do either for the full 90 minutes of a class. Maybe your forms are just boring.

Yep, I could do forms for hours I reckon, love em

I definitely wouldn't be interested in NOT having general classes. No matter how many themes you add (unless the "themes" are actually separate arts, which is an entirely different thing), you need normal classes that tie them together. Students who aren't interested in tying them together wouldn't have to attend (say, someone only really wants to study weapons), but it should be part of the curriculum.

Yeah that's the thing, it makes sense to have those general classes for that reason. But again, I'd have to talk to the instructor and see how he works with each student and what he recommends in terms of training the whole art in a good balanced way. This next dojo I'm looking at training in (after I finish trialling TKD) has this timetable system, and honestly sounds like a place I would really really click with. Even the place I'm currently trialling out has sparring class only on Fridays, but classes during the week will include sparring concepts, drills and strategies.

There is a weapons class too, which strangely I've never had any interest in weapons training whatsoever haha. Is that strange? [emoji14]

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ah that's a great idea have a specialised focus and change that from month to month, I like it.

I enjoy it, and it seems to work for students. It does have a downside, though. I might not get back to groundwork in any concentration for 2-3 months, so students take a long time to build much competency, unless they use some of their free time in class to work on it between my theme visits.

Yeah that's the thing, it makes sense to have those general classes for that reason. But again, I'd have to talk to the instructor and see how he works with each student and what he recommends in terms of training the whole art in a good balanced way. This next dojo I'm looking at training in (after I finish trialling TKD) has this timetable system, and honestly sounds like a place I would really really click with. Even the place I'm currently trialling out has sparring class only on Fridays, but classes during the week will include sparring concepts, drills and strategies.

I've seen the use of separate sparring classes more than any other "theme" class. I like it and don't, all at the same time. As long as some attention is given to sparring in regular classes, I think it's a good idea. My primary instructor had a sparring class, but we rarely (mostly in our "free time") sparred in regular classes. That meant folks who opted out of the sparring class could get through without ever sparring.

There is a weapons class too, which strangely I've never had any interest in weapons training whatsoever haha. Is that strange? [emoji14]

I don't think so. I've always had some interest in weapons, but a lot of folks just want to work on their empty-hand techniques. If there had been a weapons class at my instructor's school, I'd probably have not been interested until maybe around the time I got my purple belt - maybe 8 years into my training.

 

[_Simon_]

I've seen the use of separate sparring classes more than any other "theme" class. I like it and don't, all at the same time. As long as some attention is given to sparring in regular classes, I think it's a good idea. My primary instructor had a sparring class, but we rarely (mostly in our "free time") sparred in regular classes. That meant folks who opted out of the sparring class could get through without ever sparring.

Yeah that's it, for those who just can't make the sparring class night they'd be missing out on important stuff. But yeah depends on what people want to work on. If sparring wasn't a requirement in the curriculum and some weren't interested then not really an issue I guess.

I don't think so. I've always had some interest in weapons, but a lot of folks just want to work on their empty-hand techniques. If there had been a weapons class at my instructor's school, I'd probably have not been interested until maybe around the time I got my purple belt - maybe 8 years into my training.

Yep that's it. And to be honest if I had a weapon in hand and was going through drills with it, chances are I'd get a kick out of it

 

[Ryan_]

I would personally think that general classes are a need and themed classes are not needed as much...

For students which may not be able to make the themed classes, with a general class, they can make sure the student practices what they have more need to practice in.

This isn't necessarily going to be the same with themed classes.

 

[JR 137]

We’ve got a “themed” night of sorts on Tuesday nights, run by our second in line guy. It’s a 45 minute kata class for yellow belts (6th kyu) and up. We cover all the kata for our syllabus, and go over it with a fine toothed comb. There are a lot of subtleties in kata that don’t get emphasized on a day to day basis that get addressed and reinforced during that class. In a general class, there’s typically not enough time to go through too many kata; in that class we’re going through just about all of them.

That class is immediately followed by a 45 minute class simply labeled as “adult green belts (4th kyu) and up.” It’s all sparring drills and sparring. We’ve got a lot of standardized sparring stuff - 1 steps, solo drills, and partnered prearranged sparring drills. We’ll typically heavily focus on one set of those, then go into free sparring for a good 20 minutes or so.

The second class occasionally changes during certain time periods - after a few people promoted and we’re learning new material for rank, preparing for a test, preparing for our organization’s annual tournament; stuff like that.

I find that somehow the amount of feedback and the quality of feedback is better during these types of classes than the general classes. It’s not a teacher vs teacher thing, because I’ve noticed this whenever my CI fills in during that class, and when the other gentleman fills in during general classes.

The other class I attend is Saturday morning general class. We follow a pretty good and consistent formula - basics, kata, sparring drills as above, and sparring. The difference is we’re not doing a lot of any of it nor going too deeply into anything. That’s not a knock on it, as we certainly go deep enough and mistake/issues are addressed; but nothing specific is being zeroed in on. We’ll typically rotate emphasizing one part of the stuff more than the others, but it’s not like the themed classes. Sometimes what’s emphasized is a decent amount below my rank, but it gets me better at stuff I thought I had down.

As others have said, some people can fall into a trap of too many themed classes of one type and not make classes for the other types, intentionally and unintentionally. If all you’re doing is sparring class, the other stuff is going to suffer. When the basics suffer, your improvement in sparring is going to hit a glass ceiling pretty quickly. If all you do is kata class, your sparring is going to suffer.

 

[skribs]

My Taekwondo school does a mix. Most of our classes are general purpose, where you go over forms, striking drills, sparring drills, and self defense drills. However, our classes (which are either Mon/Wed or Tue/Thur) have sparring scheduled on Wed/Thur. Out of an hour class sparring usually takes 15 minutes.

On the other hand, we have a dedicated sparring club on Fridays which is 90 minutes of just sparring. We have hapkido on Saturdays which is another art completely, but it's a very focused class. We ignore a lot of what Hapkido can teach (because most of us are Taekwondo black belts and Taekwondo does those parts better) and instead focus exclusively on the grappling, which Hapkido excels in.

There's issues with both sides. Your brain stores things by repetition. If you do a kata once and move onto the next, it doesn't give you much chance to work on what you needed to work on. So it's useful to practice the kata multiple times to reinforce the correct version of what you're doing. Also, if you do the kata in class 3 times a week, it's a lot easier to retain than it is if you do them once a week or even less.

So if your choice is to do the kata 1-2 times a day, 3 times a week, vs. doing the kata 4-5 times per class, once a week, I'm not sure which one is better or worse.