The Truth About Traditional Martial Arts

JowGaWolf

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The big thing is. Functional fighting is supported by function.

There is a back flip single leg escape that is on paper. Ludicrous. But people make it work.

Therefore Functional.

I don't see how the argument gets so complicated.
It's because there are a lot of people who don't take Martial arts for function and as a result they get caught up in the flashy demos.

As you stated, it's simple. Functional fighting is supported by function. When I was in search for a Kung Fu school. I was specifically looking for practical function. The Jow Ga school was the first school that I tried. The first thing I asked about was function. I remember telling them that I wasn't looking for something that was flashy. I just want something that's practical. So they told me to take a free class and showed me some practical stuff. I was in from there.

However, the reality is people see this.

But the reality is this

People see this,

but fail to understand that your opponent is going to move.


I like fancy martial arts for entertainment. I just think that people should be honest about what they are training instead of intentionally blurring the lines. I think they would make just as much money, or more, by being honest. The biggest benefit is that people won't be confused.
 

hunschuld

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So, what's your definition of "your opponent's center"?

1. Your opponent's center = his front door.
2. Your opponent's center = his front door + his 2 side doors.

1 or 2?

If it's

- 1, we are talking about the same language.
- 2, I don't understand your definition. Please provide more information.
Late for me. I will explain 2 tomorrow
 

Appledog

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White ape system - WuSong Tou Kao - Wusong Breaks Manacles (甇行曇梢)
Well I meant that going under the arms for a heel kick to the chest, or going down a bit, propping up his arms to prevent a block and striking the chest, seem to be good responses instead of butting horns with a rhino guard.

As for the white ape video, I don't understand what you mean. But it looks good :)
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Well I meant that going under the arms for a heel kick to the chest, or going down a bit, propping up his arms to prevent a block and striking the chest, seem to be good responses instead of butting horns with a rhino guard.
The rhino guard is only good to be used to protect your head. It doesn't protect your chest, or lower part of your body well.
 
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drop bear

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Arm drag is the best strategy to achieve that. When a striker applies arm drag, he is not playing the striking game. He is playing the grappling game.

Even arm drag can be countered.


You can do it with footwork and striking though
 

drop bear

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It's because there are a lot of people who don't take Martial arts for function and as a result they get caught up in the flashy demos.

As you stated, it's simple. Functional fighting is supported by function. When I was in search for a Kung Fu school. I was specifically looking for practical function. The Jow Ga school was the first school that I tried. The first thing I asked about was function. I remember telling them that I wasn't looking for something that was flashy. I just want something that's practical. So they told me to take a free class and showed me some practical stuff. I was in from there.

However, the reality is people see this.

But the reality is this

People see this,

but fail to understand that your opponent is going to move.


I like fancy martial arts for entertainment. I just think that people should be honest about what they are training instead of intentionally blurring the lines. I think they would make just as much money, or more, by being honest. The biggest benefit is that people won't be confused.

And it works both ways. There are things that should work that don't and things that shouldn't work that do.

If this was a demo. Nobody would believe me.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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You can do it with footwork and striking though
Since your opponent is the center of the circle, you have to move much farther distance than your opponent does. By using arm drag, you can move around your opponent by prevent him from turning with you. If you use footwork, you will have no control of your opponent's footwork.

In MA discussion, I assume my opponent and I have the same speed. If I always assume that I'm faster than my opponent, the MA discussion won't have any meaning.

In one discussion, someone said, "When I move forward, people in front of me all fly away." I said, "When I arrive in California, people in California all escape to Mexico."
 
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drop bear

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Since your opponent is the center of the circle, you have to move much farther distance than your opponent does. By using arm drag, you can move around your opponent by prevent him from turning with you. If you use footwork, you will have no control of your opponent's footwork.

In MA discussion, I assume my opponent and I have the same speed. If I always assume that I'm faster than my opponent, the MA discussion won't have any meaning.

In one discussion, someone said, "When I move forward, people in front of me all fly away." I said, "When I arrive in California, people in California all escape to Mexico."

I thought we're were discussing centerline and how to get past the rhino guard.

I mean I could hit the guy with a chair and just stroll around to his back while he is bleeding out of his face. But that is not really an expression of how to attack a center.
 

Buka

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And it works both ways. There are things that should work that don't and things that shouldn't work that do.

If this was a demo. Nobody would believe me.
That's fairly easy to do. Works pretty well, too.
 

JowGaWolf

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And it works both ways. There are things that should work that don't and things that shouldn't work that do.

If this was a demo. Nobody would believe me.
People will believe you. That flip is more common than most realize. It just depends on what circles you travel. My Kung Fu teacher had 1 rule about holding someone's leg. "When you grab their leg, do something with it. Don't just hold it."





Penn State璽s Bravo-Young shows off athleticism against Lehigh
 

JowGaWolf

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I have never been willing to try it.
The flip is easy because the wrestler is being held up by his opponent. It's a supported back flip where your opponent is actually helping you stay in the air. The counter to it is funny.

Counter: When you feel that your opponent may want to do a back flip to escape. Help him escape. Hold his leg right as he jumps for the flip and when you feel his weight get heavy, then let go. He'll hit the ground like a bag of stones. You just have to hold on until he commits to the flip.

The only thing that makes that backflip work is because the other guy holds on. The defender is looking for the other guy to commit to holding on. The attacker needs to look for the defender to commit to the back flip and then let go. It only works if the defender is committed to the back flip.

What happens when the support vanishes

Key points for pulling off the flip.
1. Your opponent must be strong enough to hold your weight. If they aren't strong enough, then they'll naturally drop you because they aren't strong enough to hold your weight.

2. Your opponent must be committed to the hold.
 

hunschuld

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Late for me. I will explain 2 tomorrow
So the center line is from the top of the head down through the body to the ground. You want your attacks to go through this line. You can attack this line from any angle.
Using the DK Yoo boxing clip above as reference. If you attack inside the opponents lead arm you have to deal with the back hand which is usually the opponents power hand. So going up the center means your two hands vs his two hands. Doing the clock wise circle means always moving into the opponents power hand. This is your option 1

Option two. is to move to the outside of the lead arm/leg and then attack in to the center. In the clip above Manny P does this a few times. There are many way to do this but basically you move counter clockwise but cut the circle to get close to their body attacking from outside the lead arm into their center. Now you do not have to deal with their power hand. Their body is in effect trapping the power hand because it has to cross their own body to get to you.
 

marvin8

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Option two. is to move to the outside of the lead arm/leg and then attack in to the center. In the clip above Manny P does this a few times. There are many way to do this but basically you move counter clockwise but cut the circle to get close to their body attacking from outside the lead arm into their center. Now you do not have to deal with their power hand. Their body is in effect trapping the power hand because it has to cross their own body to get to you.
An example of controlling distance and creating a new centerline.

Jay Jasper Pugao
May 30, 2017

Check out Episode 2 of the Visayan Style Corto Kadena Largo Mano Eskrima (VSCK/ VSCKLM) Foundation Series presented by Guro Jay Jasper Pugao and Guro Gregory Manalo.

 

hunschuld

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So, your definition of center line has nothing to do with the 1 front door and 2 side doors.
Did not say that. It is just much more than that. I was taught as doors but I prefer lines. Also I see 5 lines not 3. if you are talking about lines between you and the opponent. facing the square stance 1. straight up the middle. 2 up the middle but on an angle to the right shoulder.3. up middle on angle to the left should. 4 outside lead arm/leg on the left / 5 outside lead arm/leg on the right. Outside to attack in the best. Your video showing shin bite is inside left angle, inside right angle. your video is very WC accept where you have a pushing hand our push would be a strike. Your pushing hand does not protect from the back hand striking. of course the speed of the throw is protection
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Your pushing hand does not protect from the back hand striking. of course the speed of the throw is protection
When you enter into your opponent's front door, you do have to deal with both of his arms. Since the body contact throw (such as hip throw, shoulder throw, leg lift throw, ...) require the front door entry, an arm wrap on one of your opponent's arms, and comb hair on his other arm is a must (or double over hooks, double under hooks).
 
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drop bear

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When you enter into your opponent's front door, you do have to deal with both of his arms. Since the body contact throw (such as hip throw, shoulder throw, leg lift throw, ...) require the front door entry, an arm wrap on one of your opponent's arms, and comb hair on his other arm is a must (or double over hooks, double under hooks).

Not really. An underhook would be an example of a side door entry.
 
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