The Tiger and the Dragon (Kenpo Crest)

[Ceicei]

In Kenpo styles that follow the Parker system (whatever variation), often their patches retain some some form of the Kenpo crest showing the tiger and the dragon.

The tiger is said to represent earthly strength/early stages of learning and the dragon represents spiritual strength/seasoning.

My questions are where do you stand with the tiger and/or dragon qualities? I've heard it said from some kenpoists that being a dragon is the goal, but I'm thinking, wouldn't it be good to retain some tiger qualities? What, for you, would be a good balance? Does your kenpo journey sometimes travel more like a tiger and at other points, more like a dragon?

When as an instructor, do you feel more like a dragon, or because of challenges inherent with teaching, elements of tiger qualities remain?

I've been thinking about this subject for quite a while lately. Your opinions and experiences to share are welcome.

Thank you,

- Ceicei

 

[nlkenpo]

I'm not gonna suggest where I stand between tiger and dragon, that'll be for others to decide.

One of the 3rd Brown sayings as posed by Mr. Parker is: Mastery of the Art comes when the tiger is seen, but the dragon prevails. I guess that already anwers most of your question.

Besides that is it not only the animalfigures that contain a meaning, it is also in the colors.

The yellow being the color of the beginners (just like the belt) and the earthly strength. The red being the color of mastery. While the tiger on the patch already has some red (it's tongue) but is mostly yellow, the dragon is mostly red, but has some yellow left in those things coming out of his back (Wouldn't know what to call that in English, in Dutch they are his "manen").

The dragon BTW has all the relevant colors in him. As said mostly red for mastery and a little yellow for strength, his eyes are white, brown and black for beginner, advanced and expert levels of proficiency.

I hope this helps.
Regards,
Marcel

 

[Ceicei]

Thank you so much for your response! Thank you so much for bringing this saying up!

Mastery of the Art comes when the tiger is seen, but the dragon prevails.

I needed to be reminded and I appreciate you mentioning this. There is a lot of meaning behind that saying.

I guess what I was asking is not necessarily specific to a person (where they actually are) but generic to where certain ranked students may expect to achieve. I suppose this is asking the impossible, with so much variation and each person so different, to attempt defining this collectively.

I suppose my actual question, when brought down to the bare minimum, is whether instructors feel they are a dragon (having earned their spot), or do instructors, despite earning their rank, still feel like a tiger? I've heard some mention under their breath that even though they've earned their red stripes and know already that they're skilled, there are days they don't always "feel" like a black belt.

One of these days, I do want to become an instructor and also a school owner. It sometimes takes me by surprise to find not all black belt instructors always feel that confident in their own skills and that they have their own "reality checks".

- Ceicei

 

[HKphooey]

Like perfection, the dragon does not exist. The dragon is a mystical creature with strength and power. I think we try to attain the closest level of perfection (the dragon). Also, kenpo is the ever-evolving art with no definitive end. In my eyes, the dragon also represents that infinite levels of training.

 

[Ceicei]

Like perfection, the dragon does not exist. The dragon is a mystical creature with strength and power. I think we try to attain the closest level of perfection (the dragon). Also, kenpo is the ever-evolving art with no definitive end. In my eyes, the dragon also represents that infinite levels of training.

Interesting! Quite a thought-provoking observation. On the flip side, a tiger is a very real, live creature with its own strength and power. I had never considered this aspect of the "dream" versus "reality" of how we train until you brought this up.
%think%

- Ceicei

 

[loyalonehk]

In many systems the Tiger also represents Fire & the Dragon represents water. Water can destroy fire, hense keeping balance when applied with moderation... Plus, the dragon moves like water. The Tiger is often over aggressive but also very powerful in its own right.

 

[Ceicei]

In many systems the Tiger also represents Fire & the Dragon represents water. Water can destroy fire, hense keeping balance when applied with moderation... Plus, the dragon moves like water. The Tiger is often over aggressive but also very powerful in its own right.

Yet fire, when to excess, will overwhelm (evaporate) water. Water is far more flexible than fire; it is able to adapt to different shapes (situations), and take on different forms [solid, liquid, and gas] (concepts or levels of application). Fire is rather temperamental--it takes persuasion and work to keep it lit and continuing. The tiger must continually be fed. Does the dragon even need to be nourished if the dragon is "mythical" and more of a dream than reality?

Pondering over how all of this relates to us....

- Ceicei

 

[kidswarrior]

Just a minor observation, while I wait to get the time to really say my piece (busy work schedule). The dragon is not only mythical, but is also the only of the animals--whether the tiger/dragon dyad; the five animals of Shaolin Kempo (and 5 Animal Kung Fu); or the 10-12 of Xing-Yi; anyway, the dragon is the only one with the ability to travel on land, in water, or in the air. Another nod to supremacy, I guess.

 

[Wingman]

Like perfection, the dragon does not exist. The dragon is a mystical creature with strength and power. I think we try to attain the closest level of perfection (the dragon). Also, kenpo is the ever-evolving art with no definitive end. In my eyes, the dragon also represents that infinite levels of training.

This is most likely the most powerful response in this post. While the dragon represents sentiments beyond that of perfection, it also does embody a sense of finality and completion.

With an art form and mind set that is granted through Kenpo Karate, to a true , passionate practitioner, attaining the dragon but losing the tiger is truly an end that one should not wish. The loss of the tiger symbolizes the loss of learning (the loss of the early stages.) As my senior instructor always says, in all walks of life, Kenpo especially, you should never stop learning.

As long as you are constantly improving, constantly growing, whatever you are doing in life in one way or another is constructive. Said in other words, black belt is not the end, black belt is truly a new beginning.

An artist without the dragon has neither the crisp fluid honed motions of a seasoned practitioner, nor the piece and peace of mind to control master, withhold and truly understand the tools he has been gifted.

In the same light an artist without the tiger has reached the end of his road and can progress no further. Whats done is done, can be refined, but evolution is no longer possible. As well, an artist without the strength of the tiger has the lost the raw power of the body and fighting spirit.

A body without a mind is a loose cannon, and as well, a mind without body is no stronger than words on a page.

 

[ChadWarner]

In Kenpo styles that follow the Parker system (whatever variation), often their patches retain some some form of the Kenpo crest showing the tiger and the dragon.

The tiger is said to represent earthly strength/early stages of learning and the dragon represents spiritual strength/seasoning.

My questions are where do you stand with the tiger and/or dragon qualities? I've heard it said from some kenpoists that being a dragon is the goal, but I'm thinking, wouldn't it be good to retain some tiger qualities? What, for you, would be a good balance? Does your kenpo journey sometimes travel more like a tiger and at other points, more like a dragon?

When as an instructor, do you feel more like a dragon, or because of challenges inherent with teaching, elements of tiger qualities remain?

I've been thinking about this subject for quite a while lately. Your opinions and experiences to share are welcome.

Thank you,

- Ceicei

One thing- One enormous thing are the levels that each the tiger and dragon posess. That is if one chooses to look at the system with a chinese flaovor. To get a clear understanding or these animals you can watch mma events, especially in the minors or farm leagues that now exist. All tigers except for the one getting ready to move up in competition or to the main show.

In American Kenpo, the dragon is represented in knowledge, experience and wisdom in combat. The tiger is the feroceous animal that doesnt always have a choice once a direction is is chosen. Again, though each symbollic charactor has layers and or levels, higher level tigers are dangerous even though their choices are limited. Higer level tigers are experienced and know what works for them in a more limited circumstance. Lower level dragons can be eaten by the tiger if caught sleeping.

Do you need to retain tiger qualities... prolly not once a higher level of dragon has been achieved. Higher level dragons will control combat from beginning to end by baiting, creating, and controlling the gap to suit their own style of combat, and they know their own style very well. Dragons are also great teachers because of the time and experience gained over the years. One of their greatest attributes is observation and decision making in the blink of an eye.