The thought of being weak?

[terryl965]

How many of you believe we must always be the man at all times? No sign of weakness or your school will loose students? Students must be the toughest or else you are a failure withen the MA world?

I have been watching a few threads and I get the inpression that if you do not stand up and beat someone down you are a sissy and a weak MA'ist. What are your thought on this subject, me I am a Lover and violence is a last resort. I f I can convince someone to have a beer and talk, that is always better than beating the crap out of someone.

 

[Stac3y]

i f i can convince someone to have a beer and talk, that is always better than beating the crap out of someone.

qft.

 

[Manny]

How many of you believe we must always be the man at all times? No sign of weakness or your school will loose students? Students must be the toughest or else you are a failure withen the MA world?

I have been watching a few threads and I get the inpression that if you do not stand up and beat someone down you are a sissy and a weak MA'ist. What are your thought on this subject, me I am a Lover and violence is a last resort. I f I can convince someone to have a beer and talk, that is always better than beating the crap out of someone.

I am just the same Terry. I think fight is the last thing to do, fisrth is comprehension and understanding, as I always say to my people, if you are gona fight there is a chance you will be hurt, if some one puts you a knife in your stomach to rober you, give the wallet,watch and everithing you got, life is to precius to be taken away for 100 dolars or more.

Yes, I know I can defend myself however there is no small enemy, I have full respect for everyone and always condect myself in a good manner and this have help me in some ways.

I don't need to be a MACHO Martial Arts guy who slaps everyone in the face to prove something.

In my contry and in my town there are a lot of narcs like the ZETAS, EL CARTEL DEL GOLFO, etc, who look like regular people or bussines men and even a traffic incident can become a shooting. That's why I avoid bad places and don't like to go out at night.

The graveyard is full of valiant, brave and macho men.

Manny

 

[terryl965]

qft.

OK I'll bit whay is qft?

 

[chrispillertkd]

QFT = "Quoted for truth."

Pax,

Chris

 

[WC_lun]

I don't like the "i'm a lover." thing. What we study is applied violence to another human being. Yeah, definately hope that we won't have to use what we train in that manner, but there is no escaping what we do is violent.

When you teach others to apply violence, you had better be able to apply it yourself. That doesn't mean that you have to be perfect all the time or beat everyone everytime. It just means that you should be competant enough to apply what you are teaching. If you can't apply what you are teaching, why should a student believe they can? As a teacher you must exude some confidence. However, there is a point where confidence becomes arrogance and that isn't good. Most guys I know who are arrogant about thier martial arts do so because they really aren't sure about thier martial arts. The guys I know who are the best fighters and martial artist are quiet, humble guys. They don't need to tell you what they can do, they just do it when they need to. Also, beating up new guys with low skill levels that come to learn doesn't really say a whole lot, other than it is bullying instead of teaching.

 

[chrispillertkd]

How many of you believe we must always be the man at all times? No sign of weakness or your school will loose students? Students must be the toughest or else you are a failure withen the MA world?

Certainly you're not equating being tough with the totality of being a man?

In Japanese there is a term, igen, which denotes the dignity a person has which is demonstrated through a certain reserve. I suppose it could be thought of as being "polite," or more to the point in a KMA context, demonstrating courtesy (ye ui). There are simply certain things a courteous man will not do or say because a polite person doesn't do them. One doesn't need to prove themselves or challenege someone to be a man.

Conversely, the stoicism that many martial artists cultivate isn't - or shouldn't be IMNSHO - a sign of someone being "manly" if by that you mean macho. It should be a natural result of one's training in self-control, courtesy, perserverence, etc. On a superficial level these things will appear similar but upon further reflection one can see a difference, I think.

Decorum, perhaps that's the word I'm looking for. It's not something that many people value these days, less still is it something one sees demonstrated often.

I have been watching a few threads and I get the inpression that if you do not stand up and beat someone down you are a sissy and a weak MA'ist. What are your thought on this subject, me I am a Lover and violence is a last resort. I f I can convince someone to have a beer and talk, that is always better than beating the crap out of someone.

Well, let me just say this, martial artists are in no way required to be pacifists (and I don't think you're implying that). The phrase "I'm a lover not a fighter" which you seem to be referencing here isn't all it's cracked up to be when taken that way. St. Thomas Aquinas, after all, put his explanation of the Just War Principle in his treatise on Love in the Summa Theologiae. Likewise, G. K. Chesterton once said that "the true soldier fights not because he hates what's in front of him but becaise he loves what's behind him." It is love which can motivate one to fight at times because the things you love, if you really love them, will be worth fighting for.

That being said, violence should be a last result. I will not say avoided at all costs because pacifism is ultimately a form of despair, it seems to me. It should also be wielded only when circumstances dictate. That would include defending oneself against physical harm, defending one's friends or family, etc.

I do not see how challenging someone over an insult would really qualify as being a legitimate use of force.

Like I said above, it's a matter of decorum. It's quite obvious that none of us are perfect and that there will be times when we don't exhibit behavior worthy of a martial artist simply due to human nature. But the question then becomes, was it excusable behavior? Sometimes, judging by the behavior I have seen first hand by people senior to me in rank and years training one would get the idea that there are few times when one can look to their seniors for a model to emulate when the doboks come off and the street clothes come on. But that just demonstrates that martial artists aren't perfect and many will often be lacking in dignity. Emulating the imperfections of the saints will still lead one to hell. In other words, simply because a high ranking martial artist does something or approves of something doesn't mean it's worth doing yourself.

Pax,

Chris

 

[miguksaram]

How many of you believe we must always be the man at all times?

Well yes I am a man at all times...accept on Friday nights when I go drag. ha.ha.ha.

Being a man should be a 24 hour thing (if you are a man).

No sign of weakness or your school will loose students?

I believe being a leader means you must show positive cofidence at all times, when in the presence of your students. Yes you can be weak, but there is a time and place for that. Personally, as a father, husband and instructor I am not afforded the luxury of being weak. I have to show positive confidence in order for my family to move forward and focus on their goals.

Students must be the toughest or else you are a failure withen the MA world?

I disagree 100%. The students that I teach are not the toughest, but they are good students. They excel both in and out of the classroom. Some can hold their own in the ring with no problem. Some not so much, but they are diligent in their efforts to train.

I know I can come off sounding like a prick on some of these threads, but those who know me know that I am pretty much a fun loving person who is passionate about what I do. I may not always be tactful in my how I approach things, but it is what it is. I'm always up for a round of beers and martial art chat.

 

[terryl965]

You know when I say I am a lover not a fighter that is jsut me being me. As to being a man yes 24 is right because we aremen , but being the man as in having to prove yourself every minute of everyday is that really a man?

 

[StudentCarl]

There's a time and place for both yielding and forcing, but either can be weak or strong.

What can appear as the strength of being violent can hide the weaknesses of fear and bad judgment, things that can later come home to roost. What can appear as the weakness of avoiding conflict can hide the strength of choosing to avoid needless harm to someone else's child (we are all someone's child). It is important to discern what is really the weakness and the strength.

Carl

 

[miguksaram]

You know when I say I am a lover not a fighter that is jsut me being me. As to being a man yes 24 is right because we aremen , but being the man as in having to prove yourself every minute of everyday is that really a man?

I was actually waiting for this... The question you asked originally will have different answers based on what we feel a man is. By the clarification of the question with your statement above, I don't feel that I have to be a "man" 24/7. Nor do I feel having to prove yourself all the time being a man...that is just being either egotisitical or just displaying low self-esteem.

 

[puunui]

How many of you believe we must always be the man at all times? No sign of weakness or your school will loose students? Students must be the toughest or else you are a failure withen the MA world?

I don't know of anyone who believes that.

Here is what Sensei Mas Oyama thinks though:

*

Other students, though promising never go far because they are too retiring to participate eagerly in combat. They are strong enough but run away from contests with powerful opponents and do not take part in title matches. If they have rivals, they avoid them. They associate only with those older students who like them and protect them. And around them a kind of training hall within the training hall develops.

This may be one way of living, but I cannot approve. . . . Perhaps the man who hangs back -- who will not take part in a match when told to, who will not make the recommended trip to America -- attracts friends because of his modesty. But, in a few years, he will be left far behind by the more industrious students who exert maximum efforts to grow stronger and more skillful and who therefore advance along the scale of karate grades. While others are moving steadily forward, the modest small-scale man plods on in his own small world. For some people, the white collar job, the little house in the suburbs, the family, and the little happinesses suffice. But I believe a man should seek more challenging battles and should try to expand his visions and aspirations beyond this smug, conservative world.

*

 

[stickarts]

The philosophy behind our training is that we try and remain calm and peaceful everyday like the meditating person in our logo, however we have the spirit of a tiger to call on when we need it. There is no need to be forceful and aggressive at all times. Only when necessary. Some may mistake kindness for weakness but that is their error.