The Roots of MMA & Potential Link to Wing Chun

[Nobody Important]

Here's an interesting article on Old Style Boxing as it was prior to later rule sets & use of mufflers.

James Figg: The Lost Origins of the Sport of Mixed Martial Arts

Some suggest that this method was what also inspired the Chinese to create Wing Chun.

Regardless of belief, it's hard to deny the similarities. Cudgel, sword & fisticuffs ( that included, wrasslin, hurling, gouging & purring).

Naive, IMO, to think that Western martial arts were lacking sophisticated techniques & theory and that it didn't, in any way, potentially influence Asian martial arts. There are abundant old accounts of matches between east and west during the time of colonialism. Interesting stuff, no matter what you believe.

 

[KPM]

^^^^^ Here is an oldie but goodie! Of course, I don't believe any of it!

Black Belt

 

[Charlemagne]

Here's an interesting article on Old Style Boxing as it was prior to later rule sets & use of mufflers.

James Figg: The Lost Origins of the Sport of Mixed Martial Arts

Some suggest that this method was what also inspired the Chinese to create Wing Chun.

Interesting article for sure. Where is the potential link to Wing Chun? I saw nothing in there about that, and am having a hard time seeing how a fighting competition which was based upon swords, striking and grappling, and cudgels led to Wing Chun.

 

[Nobody Important]

Interesting article for sure. Where is the potential link to Wing Chun? I saw nothing in there about that, and am having a hard time seeing how a fighting competition which was based upon swords, striking and grappling, and cudgels led to Wing Chun.

I'm not saying there is, and the article doesn't refer to it. There is a prominent theory out there that WB influenced WC, I don't know, but thought it interesting that boxing at one time included the practice of staff, sword, kicking & grappling, a format similar to Wing Chun. So I can see how the parallels could be drawn. Something to ponder.

 

[Charlemagne]

I'm really not seeing that.

 

[Nobody Important]

I'm really not seeing that.

Some will, some won't.

 

[Charlemagne]

Some will, some won't.

Going back to your original post, it sounds like the some in the "Some suggest that this method was what also inspired the Chinese to create Wing Chun" statement means you.

 

[Nobody Important]

Going back to your original post, it sounds like the some in the "Some suggest that this method was what also inspired the Chinese to create Wing Chun" statement means you.

You can make all the implications you want about what I believe, that doesn't make it true. I've already stated "I don't know".

If you want more information regarding any possible link between WC & WB just simply Google it. Its not a theory I came up with, it has been around a long time.

I found the similar weapons integration interesting, as well as, the use of kicking, throwing & grappling before standardized rules were introduced. Thought others might as well.

 

[drop bear]

Prize fighting is a common concept that spans many different cultures.

 

[Nobody Important]

Another interesting article.

Dojo Rat: Western Boxing Influence In Asian Martial Arts

And link to an old thread with some interesting input.

Western Boxing's influence on Chinese Martial Arts

 

[Charlemagne]

You can make all the implications you want about what I believe, that doesn't make it true. I've already stated "I don't know".

If you want more information regarding any possible link between WC & WB just simply Google it. Its not a theory I came up with, it has been around a long time.

I found the similar weapons integration interesting, as well as, the use of kicking, throwing & grappling before standardized rules were introduced. Thought others might as well.

I'm not talking about the relationship or lack thereof between WB and WC. I've seen that claim before as well. I'm talking about the article and the idea that seems to be your proposal (with no apparent evidence) that this Old Style Boxing, as described in the article you linked, led to the development of WC.

 

[Nobody Important]

I'm not talking about the relationship or lack thereof between WB and WC. I've seen that claim before as well. I'm talking about the article and the idea that seems to be your proposal (with no apparent evidence) that this Old Style Boxing, as described in the article you linked, led to the development of WC.

In a previous comment to you I stated

" I'm not saying there is, and the article doesn't refer to it".

I have linked other articles that talk about boxing's influence on CMA, KPM did as well. Some of those articles discuss boxing's influence on WC. My statement of "& Potential Link to Wing Chun" is drawn from the theory going around that WB did influence the creation of WC. Since you're familiar with the claim, I'd assume you can see the relevance of the article that discusses the makeup of old style boxing.

I'm not making any claims as you so adamantly suggest, I'm just putting information out there to be discussed.

Britain has been trading with China since the 1600s. It's not absurd to assume that Figg's Fighting may have been exposed to the Chinese & had an influence on the native fighting systems. Was there any cross pollination that led to the development or alteration of Wing Chun? I don't know, but I suppose it's plausible considering some the similarities of old style boxing & WC.

I'm sure with a little investigation you are capable of coming to your own conclusions.

 

[karatejj]

Here's an interesting article on Old Style Boxing as it was prior to later rule sets & use of mufflers.

James Figg: The Lost Origins of the Sport of Mixed Martial Arts

Some suggest that this method was what also inspired the Chinese to create Wing Chun.

Regardless of belief, it's hard to deny the similarities. Cudgel, sword & fisticuffs ( that included, wrasslin, hurling, gouging & purring).

Naive, IMO, to think that Western martial arts were lacking sophisticated techniques & theory and that it didn't, in any way, potentially influence Asian martial arts. There are abundant old accounts of matches between east and west during the time of colonialism. Interesting stuff, no matter what you believe.

Hey man, thank for the read, but it i mostly fantasy andthe writer guessing about stuff he read on teh internet.

Its one of the fakest thinks I have seen, and thats sayin smthing

 

[Knapf]

Britain has been trading with China since the 1600s. It's not absurd to assume that Figg's Fighting may have been exposed to the Chinese & had an influence on the native fighting systems. Was there any cross pollination that led to the development or alteration of Wing Chun? I don't know, but I suppose it's plausible considering some the similarities of old style boxing & WC.

I'm not going to say yes or no to the subject raised. Just want to state that Chinese masters during those times take loyalty very seriously. Adding moves from other kung fu styles would have been looked upon as sacrilege. Not to say that there weren't grandmasters in the past who made exceptions and learned different kung fu styles and mix them up. But still... this is Western martial arts we are talking about.

 

[KPM]

Going back to your original post, it sounds like the some in the "Some suggest that this method was what also inspired the Chinese to create Wing Chun" statement means you.

Uh...did you read the article that I posted a link to???

 

[Charlemagne]

Uh...did you read the article that I posted a link to???

No.

 

[Nobody Important]

I'm not going to say yes or no to the subject raised. Just want to state that Chinese masters during those times take loyalty very seriously. Adding moves from other kung fu styles would have been looked upon as sacrilege. Not to say that there weren't grandmasters in the past who made exceptions and learned different kung fu styles and mix them up. But still... this is Western martial arts we are talking about.

I don't put much stock into anything these days. As far as the loyalty back then, nearly nonexistent. Commercial martial arts schools didn't start popping up until late 1800s, loyalty only became an issue once money became involved. Many foreign methods were taught in China as foreigners invaded, and many practitioners mixed and matched systems.

 

[Knapf]

As far as the loyalty back then, nearly nonexistent. Many foreign methods were taught in China as foreigners invaded, and many practitioners mixed and matched systems.

Huh? Loyalty was a strictly enforced tradition.Ask any Chinese. Southern Mantis teachers didn't like students coming in and showing Hung Ga moves. In this case the reprimand would have been more severe if they performed boxing moves during class.

 

[KPM]

No.

Post #2 on this thread. I think the author of that article and his followers are the "some" that NI was referring to.

 

[hoshin1600]

there is no link to WC. imagination at best.
the entire article forgets history before america even existed.

"boxer at rest"
330 to 50 BCE