The mongols defeated the chinesse.....without any martial arts??

[believer]

its wierd, i try looking up mongolian martial arts.......but I cant find anything. Did the ancient mongols defeat the chinesse just by using brute stregth and courage?? I'm not saying its true, but its an interesting question. Was there a martial art for the ancient mongols??

 

[Kingston]

Iv heard of mongolian wrestling of some kind. But thats as far as my knowledge of that goes.

the mongols beat the chinese (and everyone else for that matter) using there 'superior' horseback archery skills and tactics(of course there's much more to it), not to mention they where almost bread to kill *****. lol, mongolia was not originaly located south of china......what history books are you reading lol? How old are you?

 

[believer]

hey thanks, just wanted to know.

whoops, i didnt mean to type that, lemme edit that right now, I get my history off of the internet, so yeah, i do remember a lot of bullsh1t thats not true. Didn't I say, "i think that.......".

age= teen, lol

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

Originally posted by believer
its wierd, i try looking up mongolian martial arts.......but I cant find anything...Was there a martial art for the ancient mongols??

Matt Furey has a video on Mongolian wrestling.
www.mattfurey.com :asian:

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh

 

[Blindside]

Well, the mongols defeated dang near everybody they went up against. They did it with superior tactics, superior mobility, superior organization, and superior logistics. To be fair to all of the conquered nations, horse nomads have given "civilized" countries fits throughout history.

If I recall they were defeated in Japan (twice), mostly due to bad weather and the necessity of having to cross a little obstacle called the Sea of Japan. They lost agaisnt the Mamlukes in Syria, They lost decisively against the Byzantines, though the mongol empire was well into decline at that point.

Incidentally, Poland still celebrates April 9 as the day they turned back the Mongols, but they actually decisively lost the battle. That whole attack was a diversion to free up Subotai's southern armies.

Ok, I got sidetracked, what was the question?

Lamont

 

[believer]

If I recall they were defeated in Japan (twice), mostly due to bad weather and the necessity of having to cross a little obstacle called the Sea of Japan. They lost agaisnt the Mamlukes in Syria, They lost decisively against the Byzantines, though the mongol empire was well into decline at that point.

They also invaded germany too didnt they, but didnt keep it for very long?? (this is a question, so if im wrong dont kill me, lol)

 

[chufeng]

It was the fear of a Mongol attack that prompted the building of the Great Wall (The only human made structure visible from space (without special spy satellite technology)).

Tactics, archery, swordsmanship...I doubt that wrestling had much to do with it...The mongol sword is what spurred an interest in revising the old Chinese Dao...the result is what we now call a broadsword.

A trivial point...the Mongols were not defeated by the Japanese, they never made it to Japan in any great number because of a typhoon...when they rebuilt their Navy and tried again, the same thing happened...after that, they gave up on trying...the Japanese called the tremendous storms Kamikaze...Divine Wind...and that is the reason the suicide pilots were given the name Kamikaze during WWII...the Japanese hoped that the suicide dive-bombers would turn back the enemy as the typhoons did during the attempted Mongol invasions.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[yilisifu]

In single combat, the Mongols were tough but not much more so than the next guy.

But...

Their battle tactics is what brought them victory after victory. You couldn't fight just one Mongol at a time...

 

[chufeng]

Sort of like taking on the Hatfields or McCoys...

 

[Jill666]

Now you know I couldn't resist.

 

[Blindside]

They also invaded germany too didnt they, but didnt keep it for very long?? (this is a question, so if im wrong dont kill me, lol)

I seem to recall they reached "the central German states" but I'm not sure exactly what that means given modern geographic boundaries. I presume that this was at the same time as the Hungary campaign and they abandoned both regions when they pulled out. I'm going to have to go back and reread some of my historical material to answer this more fully.

Lamont

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by believer
its wierd, i try looking up mongolian martial arts.......but I cant find anything. Did the ancient mongols defeat the chinesse just by using brute stregth and courage?? I'm not saying its true, but its an interesting question. Was there a martial art for the ancient mongols??

The mongols trained their soldiers in "martial" (pertaining to war) skills. Just like any army would.

 

[yilisifu]

I understand that they were particularly skilled with the bow (even though the Mongol bow is quite short) and very good at wielding their broadswords from horseback.

 

[chufeng]

even though the Mongol bow is quite short

Actually the mongols were the first to mass produce (not like a factory...but they made a lot of them) the short, laminated, recurved bow...it had a draw in excess of 100 pounds...

I read an article on it in the Smithsonian magazine a couple of years back...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[chufeng]

Or Yili practitioners...

Now you know I couldn't resist.

No offense taken...
...but a family do have to stick t'gether

:asian:
chufeng

 

[yilisifu]

Yup. An' we'uns all be kinfolk.....

 

[KennethKu]

Commodore Perry and his gunboats defeated the Shogun's samurai warriors and I don't believe Perry and his men knew anything about MA neither.

Military warfare is not martial art.

 

[MartialArtist]

Mongols:

Speed, Agility, Accuracy, Precision, Adeptness, and Clever Tactics

That is the reason why they won. The Mongols (cavalry) were known for their hit and fade tactics. Fire a shower of arrows, run, fire again. They will circle, fire, move. Run, lead them to a valley, where other Mongols would lie in wait and cut them off. Plus, China was "weak" in the sense that they weren't prepared for the Mongols and underestimated them. The composite bow of the Mongols had a pull of I think about 166 pounds, which was great in its day. The Mongols also had a longbow that was more powerful and had a bit more range.

 

[zen_hydra]

The problem lies in the way one defines martial arts, or wushu. Unarmed combat arts certainly can be considered martial arts, along with fencing, spear, and stick fighting. The feudal Japanese considered swimming, horsemanship, running, and the like to be separate martial arts as well. Anything war related that one practiced to the point of form beyond function, can be considered a martial art. So certainly the Golden Horde's war-like ways could be considered their highest art. They're entire culture revolved around conquest. Just as a great rifleman or artillerist could be considered a martial artist. At least that is my opinion on the matter.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Mongols:

Speed, Agility, Accuracy, Precision, Adeptness, and Clever Tactics

That is the reason why they won. The Mongols (cavalry) were known for their hit and fade tactics. Fire a shower of arrows, run, fire again. They will circle, fire, move. Run, lead them to a valley, where other Mongols would lie in wait and cut them off. Plus, China was "weak" in the sense that they weren't prepared for the Mongols and underestimated them. The composite bow of the Mongols had a pull of I think about 166 pounds, which was great in its day. The Mongols also had a longbow that was more powerful and had a bit more range.

There was more. Genghis Khan made extensive use of intelligence network and communication network. Before attacking, the Mongols sent out many spies to gather all kind of intelligence and to spread rumours. These spies infiltrated as travelling merchants. It was easy to use rumour to the maximum effect after you have created a reputation of putting the whole population of a defiant city to the sword. The enemies have two choices, to die or to accept Mongol rule and live. If they surrenderred then they joined the Mongols to go pillaging and plundering others. Tough choices, huh? To rule the conquered land, Genghis Khan created his Pony Express network of messengers. Any rebellion was quickly noticed and the troublesome rebels quickly put to the sword. Genghis Khan was never shy to adapt new siege technology from the conquered. There wasn't this "Not Invented Here" self-defeating mind-block.

In short, the secret of the Mongols was their use of intelligence network, and their efficient Command and Control network. Genghis Khan was a military genius way ahead of his time.