The main reason you can't shot a handgun accurately

[Oily Dragon]

No amount of personal animosity anyone has on this forum doesn't change the reality that cops need to be armed.

Dude, nobody here has expressed any animosity towards police. That's your bias again. Dirty Dog also jumped the gun, pun intended, on that...

Armed with firearms? 100% of scenarios?

Gotta say, I've seen some sports riots where it was a very good thing thing the mounted officers weren't carrying shotguns or rifles. The horses were plenty.

Remember Katrina when the National Guard went in to quell the public, and they were training machine guns on whole crowds? Do you know what he said to those troops called in to police the crisis zone? He made them put down the heavy guns.

Like all false dualities, 100% firearms and 0 are equally stupid. We developed non lethal weapons for exactly those reasons.

Gonna let you dudes get back on topic but I think I made my points pretty solid and objectively.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Armed with firearms? 100% of scenarios?

Gotta say, I've seen some sports riots where it was a very good thing thing the mounted officers weren't carrying shotguns or rifles. The horses were plenty.

Remember Katrina when the National Guard went in to quell the public, and they were training machine guns on whole crowds? Do you know what he said to those troops called in to police the crisis zone? He made them put down the heavy guns.

Like all false dualities, 100% firearms and 0 are equally stupid. We developed non lethal weapons for exactly those reasons.

Gonna let you dudes get back on topic but I think I made my points pretty solid and objectively.

Not wanting to have a long gun in your hand, but retaining a handgun in your hip is a tactical decisions that has zero to do with disarming police officers.

I have unslung my long gun and grounded it many times during SWAT operations to clear a small bathroom, cover a difficult angle walking backwards up stairs or clearing an attic. None of that leads credence to disarming the police.

Your above statements don't contribute to a reason why cops don't need to have a weapon on them at all times.

I understand you think cops have certain assignments that make it less likely to need a firearm, but you are not grasping that cops also have to respond to ANY law enforcement emergency, while preforming those other duties.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Dibs on the band name.

Great it won't affect my band name of Data Driven Fairy Tail

 

[Oily Dragon]

Not wanting to have a long gun in your hand, but retaining a handgun in your hip is a tactical decisions that has zero to do with disarming police officers.

I have unslung my long gun and grounded it many times during SWAT operations to clear a small bathroom, cover a difficult angle walking backwards up stairs or clearing an attic. None of that leads credence to disarming the police.

Your above statements don't contribute to a reason why cops don't need to have a weapon on them at all times.

I understand you think cops have certain assignments that make it less likely to need a firearm, but you are not grasping that cops also have to respond to ANY law enforcement emergency, while preforming those other duties.

SO, Rapport.

Nobody here seems to have animosity towards cops, or thinks cops shouldn't be armed. Speak up now...

But there's no data available to show 100% of cops need guns (lots of cops don't get guns after all), but definitely a lot of evidence they need more training and mental health support. Especially training with guns so they don't shoot innocent people, or fail to not shoot not innocent people AKA suspects. First rules of gun safety man.

Fair enough? I re read your 1st post before I wrote this.

 

[Jared Traveler]

SO, Rapport.

Nobody here seems to have animosity towards cops, or thinks cops shouldn't be armed. Speak up now...

But there's no data available to show 100% of cops need guns (lots of cops don't get guns after all), but definitely a lot of evidence they need more training and mental health support. Especially training with guns so they don't shoot innocent people, or fail to not shoot not innocent people AKA suspects. First rules of gun safety man.

Fair enough? I re read your 1st post before I wrote this.

I'm always an advocate of more training. No argument their. That costs a lot of money and you would have to hire a lot more cops if they will be off the streets no answering calls for service doing a lot more training.

Regarding disarming cops, that's not a reasonable thing to do, no matter how many times it's suggested.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I'm always an advocate of more training. No argument their. That costs a lot of money and you would have to hire a lot more cops if they will be off the streets no answering calls for service doing a lot more training.

Regarding disarming cops, that's not a reasonable thing to do, no matter how many times it's suggested.

You must know I'm carefully trying to avoid politics here. Haven't named a single movement, flag, or hashtag.

But you know, there's a great Queensryche song about this exact problem, completely with a real statistical reference on funding law enforcement, right before the guitar solo.

Spend more money on each individual cop? I can dig that. Spend it on pre-employment screening too. Did I mention I love Frank Serpico?

 

[Jared Traveler]

You must know I'm carefully trying to avoid politics here. Haven't named a single movement, flag, or hashtag.

But you know, there's a great Queensryche song about this exact problem, completely with a real statistical reference on funding law enforcement, right before the guitar solo.

Spend more money on each individual cop? I can dig that. Spend it on pre-employment screening too. Did I mention I love Frank Serpico?

I don't watch music videos if that is what that is? I'm definitely not interested in politics. More training, I'm all about it.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I don't watch music videos of that is what that is? I'm definitely not interested in politics. More training, I'm all about it.

Music soothes the savage beast.

You'll love it, it's all about the crack epidemic, lack of funding police, and military overspending.

 

[mograph]

Here's why jurisdiction matters: a study of arming policemen in four locations.

• Manchester, England
• Toronto, Canada
• Auckland, New Zealand
• Brisbane, Australia

(I assume you guys are only talking about the US, which is an outlier.)

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vio.2019.0020#B43

 

[Oily Dragon]

Here's why jurisdiction matters: a study of arming policemen in Great Britain.
(I assume you guys are only talking about the US, which is an outlier.)

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vio.2019.0020#B43

Well I am, for sure.

But I've been to Mighty Britain, too.

 

[mograph]

Well I am, for sure.

But I've been to Mighty Britain, too.

I updated the post to include the other locations under study.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I'll go out on a limb and say history does not show cops need guns 100% of the time. Traffic cops, parking cops, desk job cops, all kinds of cops. SWAT, beat cops in cities with lots of illegal guns (which is not even most cities globally), highway troopers, sure you had me at hello.

100% of anything though? That's a bold claim! What percentage of cops are involved in violent encounters each year? Can't be that high even in America. Somebody find that number because it'll be more telling than all these random 99s, 100s etc.

And in some towns, being a cop is a kind of religion, and a scary one that. Whole history of local police departments abusing the civil rights of many groups...minorities, gay people, immigrants. "Protect and serve", remember? Doesn't always work out that way, largely due to cops with egos, grudges, bias, prejudice, paranoia, or just plain fear.

Once people fear the police, the police have lost the public trust.

Great it won't affect my band name of Data Driven Fairy Tail

Tail? Or Tale? Im good with either.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Tail? Or Tale? Im good with either.

Sorry @Oily Dragon, that was an unintentional quote of your post.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Great it won't affect my band name of Data Driven Fairy Tail

 

[drop bear]

SO, Rapport.

Nobody here seems to have animosity towards cops, or thinks cops shouldn't be armed. Speak up now...

But there's no data available to show 100% of cops need guns (lots of cops don't get guns after all), but definitely a lot of evidence they need more training and mental health support. Especially training with guns so they don't shoot innocent people, or fail to not shoot not innocent people AKA suspects. First rules of gun safety man.

Fair enough? I re read your 1st post before I wrote this.

How are we determining cops need/dont need guns from the data.

I get that they probably don't use them that much.

I get that they miss a bit.

And I get that they shoot people who may not need to be shot

But not everyone falls off their bike and 100% need helmets.

 

[Steve]

How are we determining cops need/dont need guns from the data.

I get that they probably don't use them that much.

I get that they miss a bit.

And I get that they shoot people who may not need to be shot

But not everyone falls off their bike and 100% need helmets.

Just to address this, you raise a really good point. The evaluation would be whether, on a macro level, the cure is worse than the disease. And to be clear, it might be. Maybe, in spite of some evidence to the contrary, it's actually a net benefit to society to arm all cops all the time. That's the meat of the discussion, hopefully based on some kind of objective data.

But if you ask a cop whether he needs a gun, of course he's going to say yes. To expect otherwise is unrealistic.

 

[Jared Traveler]

If our highest priority is more efficiency and accuracy, that's actually easy to improve. It could be drastically improved almost overnight, by mandating officers carried a more efficient weapon that is easier to shoot, and have it on their person most of the time.

But there are always tradeoffs to everything.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Instead of MartialTalk, I propose we change the name to 'You're Doing It Wrong'.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

i could not help but post this after @Bill Mattocks post.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sorry for the poor quality.