The Legalization of Marijuana

[Rynocerous]

The thread 55 years has been coming to the topic of drugs and legalization of the. Up here in Canada it is becoming fairly liberal, and in most cases you just recieve a ticket, no court date. How do you all feel towards the legalization of majiuana? How close is the States, Really?

Cheers

Ryan

 

[raedyn]

Well first, let's be clear about the situation in Canada. Under current laws, a person who is found in possession of marijuana can receive a criminal conviction and even a jail sentence. However, more than half of the marijuana users that are caught by Canadian police recieve only a warning.

In 2001, 49,639 Canadians were arrested for marijuana-related crimes including possession, traffiking, etc. For comparison the US number for 2000 was 734,498. (FYI, Canada has 30 million people, the US 281.4 million - from census data). That means the US has less than 10 times the population but nearly 15 times the arrests.

There is currently no provision for giving someone a ticket for marijuana possession in Canada. At the last sitting of Parliament, the government introduced legislation that would decriminalize possession of less than 15 grams of the drug - reducing the penalties to a fine similar to a speeding ticket - but increasing the penalties for people growing and distributing the drug. The government claims to remain committed to the proposed law, but since the last sitting of Parliament there has been an election and it's now a minority government, so it may be harder to pass the legislation.

see cbc news or Justice Canada for more info

 

[raedyn]

There are also provisions for licencing people with certain medical conditions to use cannabis medically, and the governement has contracted a company to grow a legal supply. Only 15% of people authorized to use the drug are authorized to recieve the government-grown supply. So most are forced to go to the black market to get the drug. According to the people who are getting the government supply, though, the quality and effectiveness are lower than what is available illlictly. Some are turning to the black market anyway.

 

[Xequat]

I feel that it should be decriminalized. To decriminalize but not legalize is basically saying that the government doesn't condone it, but won't punish you for doing it.


I don't want the government telling me what I can or can't do with my own body (this is not the place for abortion arguments). Supposedly, marijuana is not physically addictive, unlike cigarettes; therefore, they are in some ways better. Marijuana has medicinal properties. Yes, I know people can become addicted, but they can also become addicted to alcohol and gambling. If it is not illegal, then we won't have to spend money on police trying to catch dealers, plus we can tax it, thus turning a large expense into an income. I don't think I'd favor smoking pot in public because of the effects of second-hand marijuana smoke on children, but for the most part, I think it should be decriminalized. I don't smoke it, and I probably wouldn't, but it should be my own choice. In fact, I think it's better than alcohol. I mean, if you get drunk and drive, you're quite likely to damage or kill someone or something; but, if you get high and go drive, you'll probably just get lost. OK, I'm kidding - oversimplifying. The cons I see are the gateway drug theory, but I'm not completely sold on it and the message that it might send which would be that drugs are OK.

I have mixed feelings about other drugs. For example, ecstasy is sort of a mix of other drugs, but sometimes you can get a bad batch or people sell rat poison in the mix and that really isn't what you want. If other drugs were legal, then there'd be an approved formula for them and the money that goes from illegal drug sales to foreign terrorists and druglords would simply go back into our tax system. Legalization/decriminalization would take the demand out of it, in theory, lowering prices of it and keeping money from getting into the wrong hands (not that our government is the right hands, but you get the point )

Good question; I haven't thought about this one for a while.

 

[raedyn]

If it is not illegal, then we won't have to spend money on police trying to catch dealers,

The current proposal in Canada would INCREASE penalties for dealers and growers (ie: longer sentences), so we wouldn't see any savings on those fronts. But we would save the $$ from ending the prosecution of possession offences - according to one estimation, $150 million per year.

plus we can tax it, thus turning a large expense into an income.

We can only tax it if we legalize it. Decriminalization does NOT stop things from being illegal. Speeding, for example, is illegal but is not a criminal offence. Name one illegal product that is taxed.

I don't think I'd favor smoking pot in public because of the effects of second-hand marijuana smoke on children,

Cigarette smoking is being prohibited in an ever-increasing number of venues, and I believe this is the correct choice. Smoking marijuana should be subject to the same rules.

if you get drunk and drive, you're quite likely to damage or kill someone or something; but, if you get high and go drive, you'll probably just get lost. OK, I'm kidding - oversimplifying.

just get lost... heeheehee

Seriously, though, the proposed Canadian law would impose harsher penalties on people caught high behind the wheel or with marijuana near a school. The government announced it would dedicate several million dollars towards educating police officers to identify driving under the influence and roadside tests. But it is not clear what they are going to teach the officers as there is currently no standard symptoms or roadside screening tests as there are in case of alcohol.

The cons I see are the gateway drug theory, but I'm not completely sold on it

This is a confusing topic, because there are studies that have come to conflicting conclusions on this theory. The Senate Committee on Illegal Drugs examined the research on the subject and concluded that marijuana is not a 'gateway drug', but I don't know if this government body will be considered the final word on the matter.

and the message that it might send which would be that drugs are OK.

It might have that effect. But so might the fact that the current laws are barely enforced. Better, I think, to make laws that there is a will to follow through on. Example: in my high school there was a dress code that was outdated and not enforced. As a result, there was zero control over what kids wore to school because there was, in effect, no guidelines at all. If they had created a more reasonable dress code, it may have been enforced and ultimately resulted in more tasteful dress amongst students.

 

[Flatlander]

I'm curious as to how the legal status of marijuana affects the psychology of the whole "gateway" drug argument. For example, were weed legal, then experimentation up to a harder drug would entail the breaking of the law. As it is, once you have started using marijuana, you have already crossed that line - perhaps making the "gate" that much easier (psychologically) to step through. What I'm saying is, those who do go on to try harder drugs do so because they choose to do so, not because smoking weed compels them. Perhaps that choice is easier to make if you already view yourself as being on the wrong side of the law.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I believe marijuana should be decriminalized, and even legalized. I see the benefits of legalization outweighing the proffered costs by the "gateway drug" argument folks, which I'm not very sure of.

I have seen alcohol and nicotine do far worse things to people than pot - give me a group of potheads to be around any day, rather than a group of drunks.

I feel the medicinal uses have been downplayed, and need to be emphasizd more. Why are we keeping such a valuable drug from patients who need it?

I think so much of the emphasis against pot is the "gateway drug" paranoia, which, again, I don't think is accurate. Trying pot won't make you try other drugs. Most of the people I've known who have tried "harder" drugs did not necessarily try pot first, but went straight to acid or ecstacy or what have you.

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

As far as I'm concerned it should never have been made illegal in the first place.

For lots of informative video clips, this site is quite good:

http://crrh.org/hemptv/index2.html

 

[Lisa]

My head spins at whenever this subject comes up.

Especially with people who object to its decriminalization and then go home and drink excessively because it is okay to do so because they are over the legal drinking age. Many of those same people smoke heavily and did so around their children for many many years. They shout about their rights being trampled on when a "no smoking" ban is placed in public areas. They speak freely about having the right to do whatever they want in the sanctity of their own home but get riled up over the mention of the legalization of marijuana even for medicinal purposes.

I know people exactly like those I mention above. They are all one or two generations ahead of me. Is it the generation that is so against decriminalization and will we see a change in the trend once the "baby boomers" have passed on?

Please understand I am not pooling everyone older then me in one pile. It is just what I have experienced. Has anyone else?

 

[qizmoduis]

I'm curious as to how the legal status of marijuana affects the psychology of the whole "gateway" drug argument. For example, were weed legal, then experimentation up to a harder drug would entail the breaking of the law. As it is, once you have started using marijuana, you have already crossed that line - perhaps making the "gate" that much easier (psychologically) to step through. What I'm saying is, those who do go on to try harder drugs do so because they choose to do so, not because smoking weed compels them. Perhaps that choice is easier to make if you already view yourself as being on the wrong side of the law.

You also need to account for the social situation you may find yourself in once you've begun doing marijuana. Once you gain access to marijuana, you also have ready access to harder drugs through the same social network, including the dealers themselves. Toss in liberal amounts of peer pressure as well.

 

[Rynocerous]

You also need to account for the social situation you may find yourself in once you've begun doing marijuana. Once you gain access to marijuana, you also have ready access to harder drugs through the same social network, including the dealers themselves. Toss in liberal amounts of peer pressure as well.

Yes, but as he was saying before, it is you who is the one who gives in. People who give into peer pressure are weak and cannot blame this on the marijuana. I can say this because at one time I was "weak", and gave into the peer pressure. Although I don't sit here and say,"Well if I hadn't had smoked weed I wouldn't had done harder drugs". That is obsurd, and I became a better, stronger person for quitting cold turkey, and staying away from hard drugs ever since. I will be upfront and say that I smoke weed occasionally(maybe once every month or two), and do not even touch hard drugs even though I have the opportunity. I am a more mature adult then I was when I was 18, and do not give into peer pressure. If they legalize marijuana I think that the legal age should be 21, not 18. Just my opinion, but the majority of people are much more mature when they are that age, rather than 18.

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[lvwhitebir]

How would you like airline pilots to be able to freely use marijuana? What about school bus drivers, metro bus drivers, truck drivers, drivers in general, ...? That's what scares me about legalization. We have enough trouble with drunk drivers, do we have to add drugs to the mix?

I personally think it should remain illegal. And no, I don't drink or smoke, by choice.

WhiteBirch

 

[Flatlander]

How would you like airline pilots to be able to freely use marijuana? What about school bus drivers, metro bus drivers, truck drivers, drivers in general, ...? That's what scares me about legalization. We have enough trouble with drunk drivers, do we have to add drugs to the mix?

I personally think it should remain illegal. And no, I don't drink or smoke, by choice.

WhiteBirch

Are airline pilots who fly under the influence of alcohol tolerated? Yet alcohol remains legal....

Once again, damning the substance, rather than the abuser. Your fright is unwarranted.

 

[raedyn]

Once you gain access to marijuana, you also have ready access to harder drugs through the same social network, including the dealers themselves. Toss in liberal amounts of peer pressure as well.

sure, it happens. But it's a bunch of horse-puckey to say this is how it always is. I've been around people 'getting high' plenty of times and I have never experienced "peer pressure". I have never even experienced peer pressure to have a cigarette. Maybe I just hung out with wierd people.

I often hear these stories about the big boogey-man of peer pressure and I think it's a bunch of bunk. I don't discount that when you are a teenager (espeically early teens) that if there was a group of people trying to get you to do something that it would be difficult to resist, but I just don't believe that it's happening all the time everyday to every kid. And, once you get past a certain age/developmental stage, you aren't nearly as susceptible to those influences. Or at least, I wasn't. Maybe I was just a weird kid. *shrug*

I wouldn't claim there aren't bad people out there, but these scare stories of all the drug dealers out to get all the good law abiding boy and girls...

 

[Rynocerous]

How would you like airline pilots to be able to freely use marijuana? What about school bus drivers, metro bus drivers, truck drivers, drivers in general, ...? That's what scares me about legalization. We have enough trouble with drunk drivers, do we have to add drugs to the mix?

I personally think it should remain illegal. And no, I don't drink or smoke, by choice.

WhiteBirch

I personally know a shcool bus driver in Las Vegas who is the hardest drinking Irishman I have ever known, but he is responible enough to not drink the night before he has to drive. This is because he is mature, and can make a rational decision about it. To say that we have to worry about these people being high all the time when it is legalalized is obsurd. I personally think that people can be mature about the use of it. Although just like with booze, we will always have people out of control. Does that mean we should criminalize alcohol? What would Canada do? How would we stay warm? Oh my God!!! Mental Breakdown!!! Please God never let that happen...
Joking aside I think that to say that the world is going to collapse and everyone is going to be abusers is obsurd. I realize this wasn't what you were saying but a point I like to make.

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[psi_radar]

How would you like airline pilots to be able to freely use marijuana? What about school bus drivers, metro bus drivers, truck drivers, drivers in general, ...? That's what scares me about legalization. We have enough trouble with drunk drivers, do we have to add drugs to the mix?

I personally think it should remain illegal. And no, I don't drink or smoke, by choice.

WhiteBirch

Truckers prefer speed over weed--they need to stay up and be alert. Just because something's legalized doesn't condone its use when unappropriate. Drinking is legal, drinking and driving is not. If smoking marijuana was legal, smoking and driving still would not be. People in the travel industry are frequently drug tested anyway.

Marijuana should be legalized. It would provide a new tax source, empty our prisons of non-violent offenders, and provide a new crop that has an abundance of practical uses. Legalization would also reduce minors' access to the drug. I don't know about you guys, but when I was a teen it was a heck of a lot easier to get weed than it was to get alcohol, since there was regulation in place on alcohol and not on marijuana. Comparing the positives and negatives of alcohol, tobacco and marijuana, marijuana comes out on top.

As for when this might happen, I'd say it'll take a while. It'll take a lot of people candidly telling their representatives that they want it, and a good portion of people sensibly don't want to be labeled a drug user in their communities. We'll see.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I have mixed feelings on the subject. Clearly Marijuana is responsible for much of the A-Motivational syndrome that plagues many people these days; however, the case of beer a day people are no better and always more dangerous. However, no parent wants to see there children choose to be dysfuntional potheads, therefore it will always be illeagal in the US. This brings us to people whom are sick and in pain. I want them to have access marijuana and even heroine if need be and I greatly resent the idea of some poor guy living in pain because some parent wants there kid to haver career. Why should people have to live in excrusiating pain, when a little H pack on there hip could keep them working and continuing to be functional members of society? I will vote accordingly, but I accept things ain't gonna change in my lifetime.
Sean

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

lvwhitebir: "How would you like airline pilots to be able to freely use marijuana? What about school bus drivers, metro bus drivers, truck drivers, drivers in general, ...?"

I have no problem with that. Heck, if their job is stressful, I would like for them to relax with a bong-toke or two. As long as they aren't doing it on the job, there is very little risk to the public.

"That's what scares me about legalization. We have enough trouble with drunk drivers, do we have to add drugs to the mix?"

Well to be fair, we would either have to ban alcohol (tried that before didn't we?), or legalize other drugs. Anything less is hypocricy.

The way I see it, if someone is driving under the influence, it isn't the alcohol or other drug that's to blame - it's the driver. As far as I'm concerned it's just a case of driving under hazardous conditions; it's the same as if someone was driving fast in heavy rain - what are we going to do? make rain illegal?

It's about personal responsibility. If someone wants to get drunk, get stoned, get high, get tweaked, trip, roll, . . . whatever - who cares? If they are going to threaten other peoples' lives by operating heavy machinery under the influence then they (not the drug) has committed a crime (putting other people in jeopardy).

Legalizing drugs will not increase the number of people that do them, nor will it automatically make people think it's ok to do them in unsafe conditions. It will however reduce crime (by lowering the price and reducing the desire to steal to afford the substance, and also by taking business away from black market dealers who would be unable to compete).

In the case of hemp, if everyone were allowed to grow it themselves, there would be no need for any black market or any drug dealing whatsoever (except for those super lazy pot heads that don't want to do a little gardening). Anyone that wanted to smoke weed could grow it themselves the same way people grow their own tomatoes or carrots.

 

[Deuce]

I support the idea of people being charged for driving and smoking weed, similar to the alcohol laws. But, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't an accurate test for marijuana consumption. Sure, you can get tested for the drug, but marijuana can stay in your system for months at a time, even if you're not presently high when being tested.

I know there are many physical signs of being under the influence of marijuana, but an accurate determination of effective THC levels in the body will be needed to charge someone with driving under the influence.

This is similar to the drug and alcohol testing I had to do in order to get my current job. I wasn't drunk or high at the time of testing, but if I was a regular weed smoker, I would have failed and not received the job. The alcohol test was no problem, because it leaves your body quickly.

There are too many variables to consider when trying to determine if someone failed a drug test because of weed they smoked three hours ago, or three weeks ago.

 

[Rynocerous]

Truckers prefer speed over weed--

People in the travel industry are frequently drug tested anyway.

LOL, poet & didn't know it? Very true with the drug testing.

Marijuana should be legalized. It would provide a new tax source, empty our prisons of non-violent offenders, and provide a new crop that has an abundance of practical uses. Legalization would also reduce minors' access to the drug. I don't know about you guys, but when I was a teen it was a heck of a lot easier to get weed than it was to get alcohol, since there was regulation in place on alcohol and not on marijuana.

The reason is because any average Joe can grow weed and sell it to minors. Very few people actually make beer with the intent to sell it to minors for profit. Weed will always be easy for minors to access, although, if we legalize maijuana, like you said the black market will take a hit. Though do you really think it will be cheaper than black market prices? Cigarettes up here in Canada are up to 11 dollars a pack, and still rising. Just speculating but I wouldn't doubt that if it were legal it would cost even more. In this case I think it is hard to use that as an argument because minors will always have access to booze, smokes, weed, X, coke, etc. I think it's up to the parents and the school to educate the children at a young age on the affects of drugs. Now I realize most kids like to rebel against "society" and do drugs in spite, and there is nothing that we can do. In those cases it is sad but they need to learn the hard way(the back of your hand!!).

a good portion of people sensibly don't want to be labeled a drug user in their communities. We'll see.

This is a very good point. I know several very important people that smoke weed, but keep it in the dark because will frown upon it. I had a doctor once that smoked weed, and was a very good doctor. I mentioned my friend the bus driver in an earlier post. My point is that most people that I know(and that is a lot) actually smoke weed secretly. I don't think that society should look down on people for the use of this drug. I don't look down on anyone for having a morning coffee, or a beer or two after work, or a cigarette here and there. These are all on the same line in my eyes, and if they want to keep marijuana illegal, then try and outlaw cigarettes, and booze. Just my opinions.

Cheers,

Ryan