The law concering self defense and use of force without guns

Wing Woo Gar

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Sounds good to me. I am certainly no expert on this.

In Washington State, per this guy (who seems credible), "Deadly force may be justified and a defense of justifiable homicide applicable, in cases "when the actor reasonably fears, imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another"."
It is a good idea to know what the law says and what the reality might be depending on all kinds of things…I have a security system, I lock doors, I have dogs, and my wife is really, really mean if you interrupt her sleep. Most of my home defense plans have to do with saving the intruder’s life.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Sounds good to me. I am certainly no expert on this.

In Washington State, per this guy (who seems credible), "Deadly force may be justified and a defense of justifiable homicide applicable, in cases "when the actor reasonably fears, imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another"."
Easy enough to look up castle law or doctrine. Things are different in public.
 

drop bear

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Sounds good to me. I am certainly no expert on this.

In Washington State, per this guy (who seems credible), "Deadly force may be justified and a defense of justifiable homicide applicable, in cases "when the actor reasonably fears, imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another"."

The thing is if you kill a guy you have a much harder time justifying it than if you don't.

Even if you are legally justified in doing so.

Which means if you kill a guy and win the court battle and clear your name. You have still spent a lot more time and effort than if you hadn't.

Which is why I quite often would just slap a criminal and send him on his way rather than arrest them. Just not worth my time and effort.

Also if they have money and a good lawyer. You are at fault. Regardless what the written law says.

The focus on written law overlooks the hair pulling insanity that can occur in a court room. And I think leads people to a false sense of security when it comes to defending themselves.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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The thing is if you kill a guy you have a much harder time justifying it than if you don't.

Even if you are legally justified in doing so.

Which means if you kill a guy and win the court battle and clear your name. You have still spent a lot more time and effort than if you hadn't.

Which is why I quite often would just slap a criminal and send him on his way rather than arrest them. Just not worth my time and effort.

Also if they have money and a good lawyer. You are at fault. Regardless what the written law says.

The focus on written law overlooks the hair pulling insanity that can occur in a court room. And I think leads people to a false sense of security when it comes to defending themselves.
That’s fine in Australia, we have door kicking, shotgun wielding home invaders in parts of the U.S. Slapping won’t be an option for them. It doesn’t happen as much here since weed prices are down and it’s recreationally legal. It was pretty frequent for a while 15 or 20 years ago. Sheriff response times are as long as 45 minutes in some parts of the county. One has to be aware and able. Several of these robbers got the wrong house, so just because you aren’t involved doesn’t mean you won’t be.
 

drop bear

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That’s fine in Australia, we have door kicking, shotgun wielding home invaders in parts of the U.S. Slapping won’t be an option for them. It doesn’t happen as much here since weed prices are down and it’s recreationally legal. It was pretty frequent for a while 15 or 20 years ago. Sheriff response times are as long as 45 minutes in some parts of the county. One has to be aware and able. Several of these robbers got the wrong house, so just because you aren’t involved doesn’t mean you won’t be.

And you are going to get in to a shoot out with those guys rather than say just run out the back door?
 

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And you are going to get in to a shoot out with those guys rather than say just run out the back door?
Maybe. It depends. Am I alone? Or would running out the back door leave the intruder in the house with some of my family? If circumstances warrant, you can be assured I will shoot them.
 

drop bear

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Maybe. It depends. Am I alone? Or would running out the back door leave the intruder in the house with some of my family? If circumstances warrant, you can be assured I will shoot them.

Are you in any way set up to take on a trained crack team of home invaders? Or would that be a hopes and prayers scenario?

The thing is when these discussions come up. We always create these super specific hypotheticals that justify our preconceived ideas.

So I want to shoot people. Translates to home invaders that are enough threat to warrant lethal force. But not so much threat that they will just murder me if I attempted that.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Are you in any way set up to take on a trained crack team of home invaders? Or would that be a hopes and prayers scenario?

The thing is when these discussions come up. We always create these super specific hypotheticals that justify our preconceived ideas.

So I want to shoot people. Translates to home invaders that are enough threat to warrant lethal force. But not so much threat that they will just murder me if I attempted that.
Dirty dog answered for me. Would you expect me to abandon my dogs and wife? I have no desire to shoot people. I have more firearms experience than my 25 years of martial arts experience. Most home invaders are not skilled at clearing rooms and using corners, I am. Most home invaders don’t have years of firearms training that includes kinetic and situational shooting, I do. Most home invaders aren’t going to be willing to die to win the gunfight. I, most certainly and sincerely am. Let me be perfectly clear, if there is an alternative to a gunfight, I am 100% going to attempt that first. These types of situations develop in the space of a breath, just like any fight. The chances of this occurring to me in my home are incredibly small, it is so unlikely that it really isn’t worth planning for or talking about at all. I shoot regularly and my skills at this point in my life are reflexive but shooting in a dynamic environment is a perishable skill that must be practiced to be maintained, it is not riding a bike. I certainly don’t practice with home invasion defense as a goal, that really only comes up when some one with very little firearms experience, or someone who is anti gun asks about it.
 

drop bear

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Dirty dog answered for me. Would you expect me to abandon my dogs and wife? I have no desire to shoot people. I have more firearms experience than my 25 years of martial arts experience. Most home invaders are not skilled at clearing rooms and using corners, I am. Most home invaders don’t have years of firearms training that includes kinetic and situational shooting, I do. Most home invaders aren’t going to be willing to die to win the gunfight. I, most certainly and sincerely am. Let me be perfectly clear, if there is an alternative to a gunfight, I am 100% going to attempt that first. These types of situations develop in the space of a breath, just like any fight. The chances of this occurring to me in my home are incredibly small, it is so unlikely that it really isn’t worth planning for or talking about at all. I shoot regularly and my skills at this point in my life are reflexive but shooting in a dynamic environment is a perishable skill that must be practiced to be maintained, it is not riding a bike. I certainly don’t practice with home invasion defense as a goal, that really only comes up when some one with very little firearms experience, or someone who is anti gun asks about it.

Yeah. Here we go. So the reason I can take on a crack unit of home invaders is...............

Look. If you want to own a gun. Own one. I don't care one way or another.

You don't have to create an 80s action movie to justify it.

They thought it was just another robbery. They thought he was an easy mark. What they didn't count on was the house they picked belongs to an ex navy special forces band member.

This summer stay tuned for Wing Woo Gar justice.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Yeah. Here we go. So the reason I can take on a crack unit of home invaders is...............

Look. If you want to own a gun. Own one. I don't care one way or another.

You don't have to create an 80s action movie to justify it.

They thought it was just another robbery. They thought he was an easy mark. What they didn't count on was the house they picked belongs to an ex navy special forces band member.

This summer stay tuned for Wing Woo Gar justice.
Please do me the courtesy of rereading my words. Certainly, you as an Australian must admit that outside of a possible military career, or a rare hunting license you have next to nothing in the way of firearms experience. Also, if you have reread my post you would see that this exceedingly rare event is not something I believe can/will happen to me. I swim in the ocean despite the existence of sharks and I go out in rainstorms despite lightning. If you read farther, you saw that I never want to be put in that situation, and would choose any other course. If you continued to read you would see that i don’t train with that in mind or as a goal. What I also said was that my commitment to protecting my wife, and secondarily my pets was paramount in any decision I might make in that regard. Please dont try to paint me as a paranoid gun nut, it isn’t true, and it isn’t fair considering what I wrote.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Yeah. Here we go. So the reason I can take on a crack unit of home invaders is...............

Look. If you want to own a gun. Own one. I don't care one way or another.

You don't have to create an 80s action movie to justify it.

They thought it was just another robbery. They thought he was an easy mark. What they didn't count on was the house they picked belongs to an ex navy special forces band member.

This summer stay tuned for Wing Woo Gar justice.
 

drop bear

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Please do me the courtesy of rereading my words. Certainly, you as an Australian must admit that outside of a possible military career, or a rare hunting license you have next to nothing in the way of firearms experience. Also, if you have reread my post you would see that this exceedingly rare event is not something I believe can/will happen to me. I swim in the ocean despite the existence of sharks and I go out in rainstorms despite lightning. If you read farther, you saw that I never want to be put in that situation, and would choose any other course. If you continued to read you would see that i don’t train with that in mind or as a goal. What I also said was that my commitment to protecting my wife, and secondarily my pets was paramount in any decision I might make in that regard. Please dont try to paint me as a paranoid gun nut, it isn’t true, and it isn’t fair considering what I wrote.

And by firearms experience. You mean experience fighting off home invaders with firearms? Or do you mean shooting a bunch of paper invaders at a club somewhere.

And by the way. Stating that you may not want to hurt anyone but you know you are trained so should the time come you could kill everyone in the room. Is still super cringe. In an 80s action hero kind of way.

I mean I get it. Because everyone says it and all your friends agree with it. Then you think it sounds normal. But it is kind of hilarious for me.
 
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drop bear

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And by firearms experience. You mean experience fighting off home invaders with firearms? Or do you mean shooting a bunch of paper invaders at a club somewhere.

Look I do Airsoft.(or the Australian version) I don't have to justify that by suggesting I am training to stop home invaders. I just enjoy doing it.

And by the way. Stating that you may not want to hurt anyone but you know you are trained so should the time come you could kill everyone in the room. Is still super cringe. In an 80s action hero kind of way.

I mean I get it. Because everyone says it and all your friends agree with it. Then you think it sounds normal. But it is kind of hilarious for me.

Oh. And I was in the reserves for three years. I was a sapper.
 

drop bear

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By the way. My biggest issue with" I got trained in guns" apart from that people always have to tell you (see vegans)

Is that it is everything that is wrong with martial arts. So we have a teacher who hasn't shot people, taught by a teacher who hasn't shot people teaching hypothetical solutions to hypothetical problems by doing dead drills, role play and telling stories.

Taught to train people in a situation that they will never get in to and therefore will never actually matter if the teaching is good bad or indifferent.

And yet done with so much serious conviction of its own self importance because of their perceived amazing mastery over life and death. That it literally sucks any actual fun out of the experience.

In other words do Airsoft.

 
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Wing Woo Gar

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And by firearms experience. You mean experience fighting off home invaders with firearms? Or do you mean shooting a bunch of paper invaders at a club somewhere.

And by the way. Stating that you may not want to hurt anyone but you know you are trained so should the time come you could kill everyone in the room. Is still super cringe. In an 80s action hero kind of way.

I mean I get it. Because everyone says it and all your friends agree with it. Then you think it sounds normal. But it is kind of hilarious for me.
And by firearms experience. You mean experience fighting off home invaders with firearms? Or do you mean shooting a bunch of paper invaders at a club somewhere.

And by the way. Stating that you may not want to hurt anyone but you know you are trained so should the time come you could kill everyone in the room. Is still super cringe. In an 80s action hero kind of way.

I mean I get it. Because everyone says it and all your friends agree with it. Then you think it sounds normal. But it is kind of hilarious for me.
I never said I can kill everyone in the room. No one I know says that. Most of my friends don’t own guns or shoot at all.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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By the way. My biggest issue with" I got trained in guns" apart from that people always have to tell you (see vegans)

Is that it is everything that is wrong with martial arts. So we have a teacher who hasn't shot people, taught by a teacher who hasn't shot people teaching hypothetical solutions to hypothetical problems by doing dead drills, role play and telling stories.

Taught to train people in a situation that they will never get in to and therefore will never actually matter if the teaching is good bad or indifferent.

And yet done with so much serious conviction of its own self importance because of their perceived amazing mastery over life and death. That it literally sucks any actual fun out of the experience.

In other words do Airsoft.

None of what you say here applies to me. You seem triggered over this( see what I did there). I can tell from your posts that it would not really matter what I tell you, you don’t read my actual words anyway. Your uninformed opinions and attacks mean nothing to me. You don’t seem capable of civil discourse, or reading comprehension for that matter. I feel a little bit sorry for you, you seem so upset about these fantasies you have been creating about me. Maybe a hug? What others me most about the state of hugging today is that some people were never hugged as a child and then they go around teaching hugs to people, but they have never hugged in the street or hugged someone in a different weight class. Have you pressure tested your hugs? Do you compete in hugging? Do you have any trophies for hugging? I’m going to guess your training is not very good in this regard. :)
 

Wing Woo Gar

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By the way. My biggest issue with" I got trained in guns" apart from that people always have to tell you (see vegans)

Is that it is everything that is wrong with martial arts. So we have a teacher who hasn't shot people, taught by a teacher who hasn't shot people teaching hypothetical solutions to hypothetical problems by doing dead drills, role play and telling stories.

Taught to train people in a situation that they will never get in to and therefore will never actually matter if the teaching is good bad or indifferent.

And yet done with so much serious conviction of its own self importance because of their perceived amazing mastery over life and death. That it literally sucks any actual fun out of the experience.

In other words do Airsoft.

None of what you say here applies to me. You seem triggered over this( see what I did there). I can tell from your posts that it would not really matter what I tell you, you don’t read my actual words anyway. Your uninformed opinions and attacks mean nothing to me. You don’t seem capable of civil discourse, or reading comprehension for that matter. I feel a little bit sorry for you, you seem so upset about these fantasies you have been creating about me. Maybe a hug? What others me most about the state of hugging today is that some people were never hugged as a child and then they go around teaching hugs to people, but they have never hugged in the street or hugged someone in a different weight class. Have you pressure tested your hugs? Do you compete in hugging? Do you have any trophies for hugging? I’m going to guess your training is not very good in this regard. :)
 

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