The issue with MMA community

[Tony Dismukes]

I’ve noticed an issue with the mma community, if you start discussing anything that isn’t judo, muay thay, wrestling, bjj, boxing, kickboxing etc you immediately get attacked.

this again just the community, the people who actually teach or fight are way more open minded. Guys like Anderson Silva learned Wing Chun and JKD, Roy Nelson does Kung Fu, Yi Long is self taught in Shaolin, Eric Paulson has done it all from Kali, JKD, judo, savate, shooto, BJJ, boxing, etc. I saw that at Gokor’s gym he is offering wing Chun classes, and scrolling through YouTube I saw that they had Stephen Hayes (Ninjitsu) at the Pit, the same pit Chuck Liddell trains at.

the point of this post is the following, a true martial artist should keep an open mind, not just take what a master or teacher says, it’s easy to listen to Rokas or Ramsay Dewey, guys who have no real success in the game and find out for yourself.

I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean by "the MMA community". As you say, my experience with most actual MMA fighters and coaches is that they are pretty open minded about anything that works.

I do have to disagree if you are placing Rokas or Ramsey Dewey in the category of people who would attack you for discussing anything other than "judo, muay thai, wrestling, bjj, boxing, or kickboxing."

Just offhand, I can recall Ramsey Dewey showing techniques he has incorporated from Capoeira, telling the story of the time he got his butt kicked by an old Tai Chi master, and mentioning the time one of his students (who had an Aikido background) pulled off an Aikido throw in sparring that he had never seen someone pull off before. I've also seen him speak approvingly of a variety of other arts.

Rokas has posted videos challenging practitioners of arts not known for sparring to send him footage of their systems actually being used under pressure - but he has then posted follow up videos where he shows the footage he has received and shown respect for those practitioners who actually demonstrated sparring ability. I exchanged a couple of messages with him back when he was still in the process of trying to make his Aikido work and hadn't switched to a full time MMA focus. I found him to be extremely polite and respectful.

 

[Mider]

I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean by "the MMA community". As you say, my experience with most actual MMA fighters and coaches is that they are pretty open minded about anything that works.

I do have to disagree if you are placing Rokas or Ramsey Dewey in the category of people who would attack you for discussing anything other than "judo, muay thai, wrestling, bjj, boxing, or kickboxing."

Just offhand, I can recall Ramsey Dewey showing techniques he has incorporated from Capoeira, telling the story of the time he got his butt kicked by an old Tai Chi master, and mentioning the time one of his students (who had an Aikido background) pulled off an Aikido throw in sparring that he had never seen someone pull off before. I've also seen him speak approvingly of a variety of other arts.

Rokas has posted videos challenging practitioners of arts not known for sparring to send him footage of their systems actually being used under pressure - but he has then posted follow up videos where he shows the footage he has received and shown respect for those practitioners who actually demonstrated sparring ability. I exchanged a couple of messages with him back when he was still in the process of trying to make his Aikido work and hadn't switched to a full time MMA focus. I found him to be extremely polite and respectful.

I guess I mean the peanut gallery, guys who train mma as a hobby or are fans but don’t really fight

i think Rokas jumps into stuff without doing research, he should be asking who is the teacher, does the school emphasis real world application, not just join a school, see it sucks then trash the martial art when it’s that particular schools fault, you'll find mcdojos in every art. Ramsey Dewey is a bit worse because he makes excuses, when Yi Long used Kung fu successfully he goes oh well he’s not a monk so it’s irrelevant or karate doesn’t work...Machida only makes it work cause he’s Machida.

I’ve never seen him do so...I’ve seen him be critical of most arts, from Kung fu, Krav Maga, wing Chun, etc

He may be extremely polite etc but just because the school doesn’t make it work doesn’t mean the art doesn’t work, I’ve seen guys in wing Chun spat, guys in Aikido use it for security because they adapted it with other techniques. I don’t take what he says seriously polite or not, I think his approach is silly and he should do more research into schools and arts he learns

 

[letsplaygames]

I’ve noticed an issue with the mma community, if you start discussing anything that isn’t judo, muay thay, wrestling, bjj, boxing, kickboxing etc you immediately get attacked.

this again just the community, the people who actually teach or fight are way more open minded. Guys like Anderson Silva learned Wing Chun and JKD, Roy Nelson does Kung Fu, Yi Long is self taught in Shaolin, Eric Paulson has done it all from Kali, JKD, judo, savate, shooto, BJJ, boxing, etc. I saw that at Gokor’s gym he is offering wing Chun classes, and scrolling through YouTube I saw that they had Stephen Hayes (Ninjitsu) at the Pit, the same pit Chuck Liddell trains at.

the point of this post is the following, a true martial artist should keep an open mind, not just take what a master or teacher says, it’s easy to listen to Rokas or Ramsay Dewey, guys who have no real success in the game and find out for yourself.

MMA is wide open, it's pond is very very deep with big fish. (even at the local level!) Most those that practice MMA have little patience for the martial version of "How many Angles can stand on the head of a pin"

I think what your seeing with people in mma with those people that have little or no patience, is they know many arts do not respond well to the "physical dynamics of a fight" therefore ineffective. So... "Why talk about them... ?"

Now that all said... for me, one of the draws of watching MMA is when someone has a unique style drawn from something one wouldn't normally see in MMA. They usually have the advantage till someone figures out the strategy or tactic.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Wouldnt say you get it anymore or less in MMA than any other martial art or place. And define attacked?

(and this is more club pending, and club culture pending than style really)

Being more willing to basically step into a ring and duke it out isnt really a objectively bad thing especially if you are teaching fighting, Combat sports may just build a culture of more willing to step inside a ring and duke it out. Or to do that to "prove whats better".

 

[BrendanF]

*"the issue with the internet MA community"

Fixed that for you. Personally I realised a while back that every MA person younger than me likely falls into this box. There are many causes, but why let it bother you?

 

[Buka]

I guess I mean the peanut gallery, guys who train mma as a hobby or are fans but don’t really fight

For the sake of discussion, if we change that to "Guys who train Martial Arts as a hobby or are fans but don't really fight" that would probably be ninety something percent of all people who ever trained Martial Arts.

Mod edit: fixed quote tags

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

@Buka it's not letting me quote you, but I'd bet even more than that, depending on what you consider "ever trained".

 

[Koryuhoka]

Okay, but what about mai tai's? Can those be discussed with the mma community?

They can turn a wolf into a monkey..

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

They can turn a wolf into a monkey..

Well someone can at least. If you figured out who did it, let me know.

 

[Buka]

@Buka it's not letting me quote you, but I'd bet even more than that, depending on what you consider "ever trained".

You're probably right. And I think the real reason most people don't train Martial Arts as a full time thing is, they just can't. Not with work, family and everything else everyone goes through.

If you're trying to fight for a living, sure, maybe, if everything goes well and your living conditions are lucky enough.

Full time Martial Arts is a tough racket.

 

[Koryuhoka]

Well someone can at least. If you figured out who did it, let me know.

I was talking about Mai Tais..

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You're probably right. And I think the real reason most people don't train Martial Arts as a full time thing is, they just can't. Not with work, family and everything else everyone goes through.

If you're trying to fight for a living, sure, maybe, if everything goes well and your living conditions are lucky enough.

Full time Martial Arts is a tough racket.

Yup. Often not a desire issue. I love MA of any form, but with medical issues, energy being spent towards work, and just taking care of a household it seriously hampers the amount of time I can spend on MA. I could theoretically spend more time if I removed all other social parts of my life, but that wouldn't be healthy.

And I don't have kids yet, and fairly lucky career-wise so far. For plenty of people it's just not possible at all to spend more time on it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@Buka it's not letting me quote you, but I'd bet even more than that, depending on what you consider "ever trained".

The quote tag had his reply inside it. I fixed it.

And I agree.

 

[drop bear]

Do people think their martial art is on the same level as the MMA ones though?

I mean I fully recognise there are martial artists who are better than me. I recognise there are schools better than mine.

I don't have the sort of fragile ego that demands I am on an equal tier with dudes who are demonstratively better.

And in MMA it is pretty easy to tell because basically they either beat you up or they don't. You don't have to muck around with a bunch of silly logic games.

I mean this conflict quite often comes about more when someone suggests a completely theoretical thing and then suggests MMA guys are being mean when it gets dismissed.

So for example ramsey dewey for example has no time for Master Wong's antics.

But there is no onus on the guy to bolster master Wong's ego. Or support the very suspect advice he puts out.

 

[drop bear]

So let's simplify the issue with the MMA community.

Some stuff from some styles doesn't work and you shouldn't learn it. And the MMA community know this because they actually do the things that do work.

Sorry if that offends some styles.

 

[jayoliver00]

I’ve noticed an issue with the mma community, if you start discussing anything that isn’t judo, muay thay, wrestling, bjj, boxing, kickboxing etc you immediately get attacked.

this again just the community, the people who actually teach or fight are way more open minded. Guys like Anderson Silva learned Wing Chun and JKD, Roy Nelson does Kung Fu, Yi Long is self taught in Shaolin, Eric Paulson has done it all from Kali, JKD, judo, savate, shooto, BJJ, boxing, etc. I saw that at Gokor’s gym he is offering wing Chun classes, and scrolling through YouTube I saw that they had Stephen Hayes (Ninjitsu) at the Pit, the same pit Chuck Liddell trains at.

the point of this post is the following, a true martial artist should keep an open mind, not just take what a master or teacher says, it’s easy to listen to Rokas or Ramsay Dewey, guys who have no real success in the game and find out for yourself.

Those guys that you listed, mostly just dabbled in those TMA's. To get to where they are, their core was still those MMA staples that you were complaining about. Anderson Silva, ain't a Wing Chunner...he's straight up Muay Thai and even opened a school for it. And he's a BJJ BB and Pro Boxer.

Eric Paulson was getting demolished in the early days of MMA, trying out his Wing Chun there; and that was when the talent was nowhere near what it is today. Paulson then started training BJJ, Mai Thai, and all of that (that you complained about). Chuck Liddell is an anomaly with a freakish chin (that's gone now due to all that beating)....you throw wide, looping punches like Liddell does so often, and you'll go night night quick. Ain't no aspiring UFC fighter is saying..."hey, I'd like to throw punches like Chuck Liddell, can you teach me?" And Liddell is also a Wrestler. Hackleman also teaches all of those staple arts that you complained about.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I’ve noticed an issue with the mma community, if you start discussing anything that isn’t judo, muay thay, wrestling, bjj, boxing, kickboxing etc you immediately get attacked.

What do you mean by "attacked?"

Are they claiming that arts outside of those aren't good for MMA? Never having been involved in MMA myself, I wouldn't have the experiential wherewithal to argue with an MMA fighter on that. At the same time, results don't lie. Look at the arts that the top fighters in the UFC are trained in.

Anyone who's going to get an inferiority complex over it can easily save themselves the stress by taking up an art that's more commonly represented in MMA.

 

[Alan0354]

Sorry to say, I am more on the MMA side. To put it in perspective, I never learn MMA, my main discipline is Tae Kwon Do which I spent almost 3 years. I learn some Wing Chun and 9 months of Judo when I was in Hong Kong. I don't know anything about BJJ, ground game, wrestling and all that. By the time MMA was available, I am way too old to learn.

To me, MA is the ART OF KICKING BUTT, not artistic. You want pretty and grace, go do ballet. UFC is the ULTIMATE proving ground for what works and what NOT. Particular the earlier days where the only rule were no eyes gauging, no biting. People with all disciplines went up there and very quickly ( only UFC 1, 2, 3) to show what worked and what didn't. People pick the ones that WORK and eliminate the ones that doesn't.

MMA is very practical and evolving very fast. You can see the change even watching back videos from 7 years ago. Basically, ones that boil down to is Tae Kwon Do kicks, boxing hands ( combine to kick boxing), BJJ, wrestling, Muy Thai elbows and knees. These are proven by time and success. IF any style disagree, the octagon is WIDE OPEN for them to proof their worth. You beat them, you will earn your respect. You do not demand respect, YOU EARN IT. You feel passionate about this, train hard, find someone with the talent and go into the Octagon and win. They will give you all the respect you want.

Now, don't claim your style and fight like MMA, if you win by MMA style, that doesn't count. You win with your distinct style. Don't go up there and do kick boxing. And being from Hong Kong, I had a lot of exposure to the masters of different style. They talk too much. Like I said, MA is an art of kicking butt, don't beautify the meaning.

Sorry, as an outsider, this is how I see it. Talk is cheap, go win some matches with your style, then people will give you the due respect.

Go on youtube, look up Xu Ziaodung.

SORRY

 

[Urban Trekker]

UFC is the ULTIMATE proving ground for what works and what NOT.

I've said something similar, only I said MMA in general is the proving ground. In any case, the idea is the same. A practitioner in an art outside of those most commonly practiced in MMA can deny this until the cows come home, but seeing is believing; and to show is to prove. And that's exactly what MMA does. That's why we call it the "proving ground."

I'm under the impression that many of us want to believe that we're Mr Miyagi or Jackie Chan, and can take down the big mean looking guys with the tattoos and the mohawks.

 

[Alan0354]

I've said something similar, only I said MMA in general is the proving ground. In any case, the idea is the same. A practitioner in an art outside of those most commonly practiced in MMA can deny this until the cows come home, but seeing is believing; and to show is to prove. And that's exactly what MMA does. That's why we call it the "proving ground."

I'm under the impression that many of us want to believe that we're Mr Miyagi or Jackie Chan, and can take down the big mean looking guys with the tattoos and the mohawks.

Don't think I am gleeful to say all that, actually I am very bitter because I put in a lot of effort learning Tae Kwon Do and Injured my back from all the high kicks and had to quit. If I knew MMA was coming, I would have saved my back and put effort into MMA and BJJ. I say this with a lot of bitterness. But this is the fact. Don't agree, prove inside the octagon.

I don't associate with Kung Fu community in US at all, but I lived in Hong Kong for 20 years and seen enough of their loud mouth trash talking it really turned me off. They talk as if they were the best and trash talked other style. Then they go into talking fight "on paper".........If you come at me with this, then I do this to counter..........Hell, you don't talk fight on paper, you fight!!!

I was there when Bruce Lee died. They hated Bruce Lee but Lee whooped their butt. We heard of private fights between Lee and other masters. I heard it's common some rich people actually had private party hosting fights and never goes on record whether you believe it or not. They hated Bruce Lee at the time. Then right after Lee died, a lot of people came out and claimed they can beat Bruce Lee. It's so common people trash talk each other.

I remember there were competitions broadcasted on tv between different style in the whole Asia. People represented different style went into the stage with all the body armor fighting each other. I was young at the time before I learn anything. I was watching.........How come they all looked the same when they fight, just fighting like mad dogs whaling at each other!!! There's no difference between monkey style, Prey Mentas, Hung Ga, white brow, or any other fancy styles. All looked like mad dog whaling at each other!!! I did not see this, but my friend told me he saw Muy Thai really whooped every other styles' butt.

To me, the problem of tradition MA is they are stubborn, they refuse to change. Those styles were invented hundreds of years ago learning from animals. They glorify how to do it EXACTLY how it was done from the beginning, they refuse to change, instead keep arguing how "right" they are. MMA is about change, improving. They look at Kung Fu, they incorporated the step kick to the knee from Wing Chun. You can see they use it a lot lately. MMA community is NOT stubborn, you just have to show it's effective and they'll learn and use it right away.

Last but NOT the least, there's so so much BULL **** in Kung Fu. I personally suffered from the scam and hype. When UFC first came on the scene, I was too old and my back won't allow me to learn anymore. I was watching how the grappler lower the body and charge the opponent. Their back are exposed right in front of you. You can use Iron Palm to wack on his back. I spent 3 years practicing Iron Palm diligently, I did NOT hit any harder, I got nothing out from it other than carpal tunnel on both of my hands. I had to have surgery on my left hand and I still carrying it on my right hand. Kung Fu glorify repetitive motion, that you practice hitting 100 times every day over and over and you get better. That is such a SCAM. Scam about promising miracle of iron palm. 3 long years of practicing, absolutely no improvement, no increase in hitting power, all a scam. You see on youtube iron head and iron body stuffs? Good luck.

I am glad Xu Zaiodung makes it a mission to uncover all the BS.