The Gathering

[KamonGuy2]

I was thinking of organising a wing chun get together for everyone on this forum as people seem to be sharing the same passion

I have noticed that many come from the USA and thought this might be a good venue

Please note - I will not be teaching or anything, as whilst I am a martial arts instructor I still have a lot to learn. It might just be good to hook up and train, maybe go for a few beers etc

My bro is currently in the US (Baltimore) so I could do a trip all in one

What do you guys and gals think?

 

[geezer]

Kamon Dude: Surely you know that getting different branches of WC/WT together is harder than herding cats! Even in my own town, the several different branches (Fong Chi Wing's WC, Leung Ting's WT, Emin Boztepe's WT, Moy Yat's VT) don't even speak to each other. Well..I try, but that makes me an outsider to all of them. I noticed on some of your posts that you didn't think too much of WT (which has now split into several organizations). I spent more than a decade studying in that branch with a guy named Leung Ting and I found his technique and theory to be very sophisticated. I've also worked with a WT fighter named Emin who was really good. And, I've worked with some folks who trained under Keith Kernspecht on the Continent. All were good. That's not to say that there weren't other issues. Aren't there always? I don't know how WT has been promoted in the UK, but in the States it depends a lot on the school. I'd like to know what your criticism of the system is from the Kamon perspective. As for a gathering--if I weren't a poor high school teacher living 2,000 miles west of Baltimore, I'd try to make it. But, really, that's out of the question for me. Still it's a good, if delusionally optimistic idea. Good luck!

 

[qwksilver61]

Yeah, I hear you! Delusional or not! Great idea.Too bad I'm here in sunny Florida.Anybody coming this way on vacation? Here's the trade off,hook me up, I'll hook you up;vacation and training.How 'bout that?

 

[KamonGuy2]

Kamon Dude: Surely you know that getting different branches of WC/WT together is harder than herding cats! Even in my own town, the several different branches (Fong Chi Wing's WC, Leung Ting's WT, Emin Boztepe's WT, Moy Yat's VT) don't even speak to each other. Well..I try, but that makes me an outsider to all of them. I noticed on some of your posts that you didn't think too much of WT (which has now split into several organizations). I spent more than a decade studying in that branch with a guy named Leung Ting and I found his technique and theory to be very sophisticated. I've also worked with a WT fighter named Emin who was really good. And, I've worked with some folks who trained under Keith Kernspecht on the Continent. All were good. That's not to say that there weren't other issues. Aren't there always? I don't know how WT has been promoted in the UK, but in the States it depends a lot on the school. I'd like to know what your criticism of the system is from the Kamon perspective. As for a gathering--if I weren't a poor high school teacher living 2,000 miles west of Baltimore, I'd try to make it. But, really, that's out of the question for me. Still it's a good, if delusionally optimistic idea. Good luck!

Yeah, I have heard that several students of Leung ting are exceptionally good, namely Emin and Allen Fong, but some clips I have seen of Leung Ting have not impressed me.
There are numerous articles by Ting which claim that he is the only true WT system, etc and has had a lot of trouble from the wing chun community

Whilst I think Kamon is awesome, Kevin Chan would not and has never claimed that his brand is the best out there (although it certainly is the best fighting system I have come across)

The WT instructors I trained with were very arrogant and didn't like my collapsing bong saos.
I kept my mouth shut through most of the training and yet they bullied their beliefs onto me. They kept going on about Kevin Chan and took the mick out of him. When they persisted in challenging me to fight them/spar, I did, and beat them up.

I have heard that the German branches are very good but I have yet to see any good WT instructors in the UK. They might exist, but that experience put me off looking

I am always willing to meet practitioners of any style - I am certainly not a particulary gifted martial artist but help where I can. I am eager to see how different styles of wing chun function and don't care about politics

 

[geezer]

Yeah, I have heard that several students of Leung ting are exceptionally good, namely Emin and Allen Fong, but some clips I have seen of Leung Ting have not impressed me.
There are numerous articles by Ting which claim that he is the only true WT system, etc and has had a lot of trouble from the wing chun community

Whilst I think Kamon is awesome, Kevin Chan would not and has never claimed that his brand is the best out there (although it certainly is the best fighting system I have come across)

The WT instructors I trained with were very arrogant and didn't like my collapsing bong saos.
I kept my mouth shut through most of the training and yet they bullied their beliefs onto me. They kept going on about Kevin Chan and took the mick out of him. When they persisted in challenging me to fight them/spar, I did, and beat them up.

I have heard that the German branches are very good but I have yet to see any good WT instructors in the UK. They might exist, but that experience put me off looking

I am always willing to meet practitioners of any style - I am certainly not a particulary gifted martial artist but help where I can. I am eager to see how different styles of wing chun function and don't care about politics

I hear you. I honestly feel that Leung Ting is an amazingly gifted martial artist with distinct take on how to apply Yip Man's art. And since many of his interpretations of that art are uniquely his, it is appropriate that he coined his own spelling to differentiate his art from others. The problem arises when anyone starts insisting that he is "the best" or has the only "true" version of the art and other such rubbish. I understand that people do this for business reasons. I mean, who's going to join a school that advertises' "Decent, second-rate kung-fu, fully acceptable for self-defense, if your attacker isn't too good"? Unfortunately, some people get brainwashed and really believe this "Holier than thou" garbage. In that case, you've done them a charitable service by beating them up. At least, you've opened their eyes and maybe prevented them from getting themselves killed or seriously injured in a street fight. I personally confronted the same attitudes, even within the WT system. The Germans, especially, seemed to feel their superiority, and sometimes liked to prove it physically. I hate to say it, but it kinda reminded me of the outdated steriotype of 3rd Reich thinking-- applied to Wing Tsun. Hell, I'd take a beating if I could learn something, but I didn't particularly enjoy it. I actually believe that these attitudes have done far more harm than good to the reputation of the WT system in the martial arts community. More's the pity, since it really does have a lot to offer.

 

[qwksilver61]

Arrogance is right,which is sometimes why I think the Chinese should have kept the art to themselves,but then again aren't there are bullies and arrogant people in every society? I for one do not believe that Wing Chun will ever be unified.Most schools I have seen are full of arrogance and lack humility.(something which is not so often taught) and yes the biggest guy tosses everyone around to prove a point.If everyone in this Wing Chun forum need be reminded;Wing Chun was passed down by a person of the (Women take no offense) weaker sex "to overcome larger and stronger opponents with speed and skill" makes good sense to me.If you want to train with another school then by all means,but at least find your niche, stick with one thing,and be good at it. Just my two cents,Qwksilver

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

I think it would be more prudent to make an open invitation to anyone wanting to visit... since it is very hard to actually get a group from all over to one place without a strong motivating force...

I'm in Puerto Rico, so if anyone wants to play they are welcome. If I travel to the US I will tell and hopefully can visit some people on the way.

Enjoy!

Juan M. Mercado

 

[KamonGuy2]

Arrogance is right,which is sometimes why I think the Chinese should have kept the art to themselves,but then again aren't there are bullies and arrogant people in every society? I for one do not believe that Wing Chun will ever be unified.Most schools I have seen are full of arrogance and lack humility.(something which is not so often taught) and yes the biggest guy tosses everyone around to prove a point.If everyone in this Wing Chun forum need be reminded;Wing Chun was passed down by a person of the (Women take no offense) weaker sex "to overcome larger and stronger opponents with speed and skill" makes good sense to me.If you want to train with another school then by all means,but at least find your niche, stick with one thing,and be good at it. Just my two cents,Qwksilver

Yeah I know what you mean. I'm a big guy, but enjoy absorbing energy and moving better rather than using strength
Even with my weight and strength, smaller people can still beat you up (as my Sifu does at demos!)

In other arts I've trained at, using bullying tactics is encorgaed and it really turned me off some of them

The whole point of training is to better yourself and to feel good from the training, not to bully people and feeling good when you beat someone up

Saying that, anyone is welcoem at my class - but make sure you say who you are or you would end up having to pay the fees for beginners etc!!

 

[marcus_p]

KG, You're welcome to look us up when you're stateside. We have two students who commute from Baltimore/MD to NYC. My SiFu says the best was his teacher, and he has some "damn good" seniors. He tells us not to believe what he teaches us, but to experiment and verify ourselves and encourages us to meet other martial artists with an open mind and common sense.

 

[KamonGuy2]

KG, You're welcome to look us up when you're stateside. We have two students who commute from Baltimore/MD to NYC. My SiFu says the best was his teacher, and he has some "damn good" seniors. He tells us not to believe what he teaches us, but to experiment and verify ourselves and encourages us to meet other martial artists with an open mind and common sense.

That's a good attitude. It does get frustrating in class when students constatntly question techniques, despite you proving day in day out that they work. Then next week they still have doubts!!
I guess that's just the British for you!!

 

[The Mark]

Hey,

Our group likes to workout with all kinds of people. We might be able to make a trip for some workout time. Let us know the details.

Mark

www.northeastwingchun.com

 

[BFL]

Hello qwksilver61, I am new to the posting world here at martial talk, but noticed you said your in Fla? What area? I'm in the Orlando/St.Cloud area for about another 6 months and would love to find someone to work out with. Cheers and have a good one.
BFL

 

[qwksilver61]

I'm in the Merritt Island, Cocoa Beach area.Maybe we could hook up at the next EBMAS seminar in Feb.Or possibly sooner.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Has anyone heard of Sifu Julian Sawyer
http://webhost5.nts.jhu.edu/kclub/sifu.html

My brother recently attended his school at the University
My bro has trained for as long as me but is a bit rusty since he crossed the Atlantic. He went to the class to do basic training

There was a very friendly Chinese guy who welcomed my bro but explained that the main sifu (Mr Sawyer) turned up 'now and again'

My bro trained with the other students and things were running smoothly. He found differences in the way lok sao was performed (as you would expect from a school thousands of miles from his original school in London!).

Mr Sawyer turned up on his mobile phone halfway through the class and sat down chatting
He then went round the class (disrupting the caretaker instructor's class) and noticed my bro. He asked if he was new to which my brother replied 'yes, although i trained in England'
Mr Sawyer then asked if he did the traditional wing chun or the modified version, to which my bro replied 'I have no idea what you are talking about'
Mr Sawyer then explained that there were two types of wing chun - the traditional taught by Yip Man to his Sifu
And the modified which was a false style tauight by many other practitioners

My brother, keeping respect, merely said 'I don't know'. At this point I should say that we are both taught through Kamon which is from the Ip Chun lineage

Mr Sawyer then began to criticize everything my brother was doing
ie instead of saying, 'no we train lok sao, chi sao etc in this way', he just said that what my brother was doing is completely wrong and offered no explanation

Mr Sawyer then left several minutes later

It was explained by the caretaker instructor that this was not an irregular occurrence

My question to you guys - is this a standard in American schools?
Kamon prides itself on having a nice relaxed environment, sure, but there is a degree of ettiquette and class pride
If I am ever late to teach a class, I make sure I apologize to my students and give a reason as to why i am late

Opinions would help here?

 

[melry88]

Kamon Guy,

No what happened here is not the way other schools in the USA function. You will always have a few that will rise to the top with how NOT to act and will get the attention. Looking at his lineage I do see why he would want to discredit your brothers training since there is a big rift between William Cheung and the Ip brothers Ip Chun and Ip Ching.

I would let him know this is not the way it should be and to avoid that school at all costs.

Sorry he had to go through that…

 

[KamonGuy2]

Thanks man