Tenjindo

[FasterthanDeath]

Has anyone ever heard of Tenjindo. Came across the website when looking up DFW ninjitsu schools. Does it have any merit?

 

[r.severe]

First off you will not find any ninjitsu schools in the DFW area using the incorrect spelling of ninjutsu... from my experience..
Try ninjutsu...

Anyway I have and have had the only school in the Dallas area from 1985...
www.artofcombat.com

I know that another guy traines up north of the Dallas area.. but forgot his name.. he is a high ranked Bujinkan member.. Luke shihan.. I believe.

I know that John L. from Houston.. has a small group here somewhere but they don't get out much... and are Genbukan..

Other than that.... ???

I do not know of any schools with tenjindo... names or arts...

I know if you look in yellow pages here there is only mine listed for the past 8 years... but not sure about the web...

Good luck..

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Cryozombie]

Has anyone ever heard of Tenjindo. Came across the website when looking up DFW ninjitsu schools. Does it have any merit?

Well, he doesnt claim to be an ancient ninja master, so thats a plus...
Beyond that...

:idunno:

 

[Cryozombie]

First off you will not find any ninjitsu schools in the DFW area using the incorrect spelling of ninjutsu... from my experience..
Try ninjutsu...

Anyway I have and have had the only school in the Dallas area from 1985...
www.artofcombat.com

I know that another guy traines up north of the Dallas area.. but forgot his name.. he is a high ranked Bujinkan member.. Luke shihan.. I believe.

I know that John L. from Houston.. has a small group here somewhere but they don't get out much... and are Genbukan..

Other than that.... ???

I do not know of any schools with tenjindo... names or arts...

I know if you look in yellow pages here there is only mine listed for the past 8 years... but not sure about the web...

Good luck..

ralph severe, kamiyama

Ralph,

Apparently the Instructor is a 1st Dan in Ninpo, 2nd in TKD, and 2nd In Judo...

He doesnt call his art Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu... its just a hybrid art.

Here's their Website...

Tenjindo Taijutsu

 

[r.severe]

I see...

There ois a big difference in the meaning of nin-jitsu and nin-jutsu.. they are not the same meaning or kanji...

I do read on his site that he is in fact ranked as you stated.
But it states ninpo taijutsu.

I see...
But what really does that mean?
What is ninpo taijutsu?
There is no art of ninpo taijutsu...
As well there is no art as taekwondo...
There has to be a system behind it..
As in...
kenjutsu...
kashima shin ryu kenjutsu...
or
kenpo...
kukishinden ryu kenpo...

I am not aware of any system of ninpo taijutsu..
Are you or is anyone else?

His ranking has to come from somewhere doesn't it.. ?

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Cryozombie]

I am not aware of any system of ninpo taijutsu..
Are you or is anyone else?

His ranking has to come from somewhere doesn't it.. ?

ralph severe, kamiyama

I think a lot of ninjutsu practitioners use it as a generic term tho, much like a lot of martial artists study "Karate"

I would make the assumption that using the term "Ninpo Taijutsu" he is from one of the 'Kans... But it would be a good question to ask him if one were ever to train with the guy... He's near you, right?

 

[Dale Seago]

I know that another guy traines up north of the Dallas area.. but forgot his name.. he is a high ranked Bujinkan member.. Luke shihan.. I believe.

That would be Luke Molitor. I know him fairly well, trained with him during the April Tai Kai in Japan, and recommend him to anyone in his vicinity who's looking for an instructor. From his website:

Luke Molitor is a lifelong student of the Japanese warrior arts and ways, and is a Shidoshi Senior Instructor (Judan menkyo level) in the lineages taught in the Bujinkan Dojo under the auspices of Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi of Noda-shi, Japan. He has also taught, trained, and competed in a number of martial systems – Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Southeast Asian, and European, and has achieved significant ranks in several arts, including Brazilian style jujutsu, mixed-martial arts, kickboxing, fencing, and Western Combatives.

He has lived in Japan for a significant amount of time, and currently splits his time between Dallas, Texas and Saitama, Japan, where he continues to study and train with Dr. Hatsumi and his senior Japanese teachers. He is also a close, trusted, dedicated student of Hiroshi Nagase, Kenichi Someya, and Toshiro Nagato, whose feeling permeates the Jigoku Dojo.

His credentials also include instructor certification in numerous combat and defensive tactics programs such as use of force, chemical sprays, military & police ground tactics, collapsible batons, tactical handgun & shotgun, and several others.

Luke has undergone extensive training in executive protection concepts and received credentials as a certified Executive Protection Specialist (EPS). Since that time he has been employed as both an agent and team leader in various capacities. In addition, he has designed programs for use in executive protection and law enforcement and works as a consultant with various law enforcement and private security groups.

Additionally, he holds degrees in history and Japanese studies and is currently studying military history on a graduate level. Luke is also a certified personal trainer and published author with a diverse range of works including fitness matters, personal security issues, and historical research. He has been honored nationally and internationally for his achievements - most recently with a commendation from the state of Ohio and the Xenia Police Department for his contributions in the training of police officers.

All that, and he's a nice guy too.

 

[r.severe]

Yes,
Dale shihan..
I looked up his web site...
Oh yes.. and remembered...
I have had 4 guys train with him over the past year or so....
They enjoyed meeting him and said he was a very nice guy.. tall.. moved very good too.
He trains (from what I was told) in the differnet methods than I do.. I call them 'movie stuff' from the conversations of the students who trained with him.... they said he had knowledge of the Bujinkan arts....and he spoke of training in other arts as well... students said he was very good at the way he does his art... but mainly for the younger guys and not as I train or teach.. which is more progressive pragmatic methodology and combative approach from what they stated. I can't disagree...
I like to make assessments of my training and the training of the students here at the Dojo... so we have permissible contest or some call matches.. going to the post... with the skills of the Dojo training...
Seeing that I'm a bad boy.. and should be scolded daily for my bad past of being evil and misguided... LOL.. I understand why someone would stay clear of the Kamiyama Dojo... hey but the girls say I'm a nice guy... if no one else will...LOL..

James shidoshi has also trained with him. He said he enjoyed his training too.
Said he was a nice guy as well.
By the way... He saw him at his kenjutsu seminar some time ago... up north of Dallas...

Luke shihan has never stopped by, called or introduced himself...
Funny... hey strange...

I did give a seminar in his area.. right down the steet from his place a month ago... I sent an invite to him.... oh well...

The Bujinkan .... ninja should do research...

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

That would be Luke Molitor. I know him fairly well, trained with him during the April Tai Kai in Japan, and recommend him to anyone in his vicinity who's looking for an instructor. From his website:




All that, and he's a nice guy too.

What is his damn rank anyways? I saw him (and you) last April and was teasing him about it since he is so humble about the subject. I know he is the highest ranked guy in the Dallas area, but after the way Hatsumi put his trust in him (asking him to teach at the honbu, putting him in charge of part of the Daikomyosai party, etc) I was sure he would make a jump in grade. After all, Hatsumi does give rank for things like hosting tai kais, doing security or providing banners for those events. But Luke was rather tight lipped about whether he got a new rank and I can only tell that he wears the "ugly patch" as I like to call it.

Any news?

As for the Tenjindo guy, I remember when Luke was living here he was excited about finding a guy on the internet who lived near Dallas and was supposably teaching Bujinkan. When I next saw him after he had been back in America for a while, he said that the guy turned out to be a RVD video black belt course student. The guy seemed to try to avoid him. I get the sneaky suspicion that this guy may be the video black belt. RVD only grades up to shodan on those things, right? And that is the rank this guy has , right?

 

[FasterthanDeath]

whats RVD? And whats the difference between what he teaches and Bujinkan? Also I talked to him on the phone and he said that you offered him a challenge or something like that and that his art is more modern and based on Street survival.

 

[Don Roley]

whats RVD? And whats the difference between what he teaches and Bujinkan? Also I talked to him on the phone and he said that you offered him a challenge or something like that and that his art is more modern and based on Street survival.

RVD is Richard Van Donk. He runs adds every issue of Black Belt for a video black belt course.

And who the heck offered him a challenge? Not I. I live in Japan. But I don't doubt that he would say his art is more modern, street effective, etc. I ahve yet to meet someone who started their own art that didn't say that. I can't even imagine someone starting their own art if they didn't think it was some sort of improvement, other people of course probably having a differing opinion.

 

[r.severe]

You want to hear a rear poor shameful joke about ranking...
Banners... ranking and security.. for ranking.. and money for ranking... who knows anymore.. I know one thing... it's a joke beyond jokes in the martial arts today...
Hey I believe Butch Johnson Shihan is or was the highest-ranking Bujinkan mega dan in the area…
He lives over in the far East Dallas area.. maybe as far as FtW. No disrespect to any maegadans.. but.. if he can be a magadan then hey I have news for you.. anyone can… and hey.. by the looks of it.. most everyone will be one soon.. !!!!
I believe everyone who goes to Japan or has gone to Japan or lived in Japan has jumped grade.. or many grades.. LOL.. Come on… is it the joke of the Bujinkan by now ?
I feel in regards to ranking.. in the Bujinkan it is best we keep that quit.. don’t you agree ?
Or maybe not…
Like many have said.. it use to take 10 years to take the godan test.. in the 80’s.. (mine took 9 and half years)
How long did yours take Donny sensei ?
You were a green belt when I already had my godan right.. and that was 1991 in Texas…
Butch Johnson had his 1st kyu as well.. now he is what.. 11, 12, 13, 14…level.. ?
In the 90’s it took a word from someone even if you have only trained a few weeks…
Now in the 2000’s.. what now?
What does it take to be a magadan now.. I hear it only takes a few friends who are already judan .. three to pass you.. or get you passed.. you can say the buddy system words.. in the Bujinkan Dojo these days..
Like they have said.. many times over..
It’s not what you know it’s who you know… RIGHT !!!
In 1983 I was promoted to hachikyu...
In 1988 I was promoted to nidan.....
In 1989 I was promoted to godan...
In 1991 I was promoted to nanadan... when Donny sensei was just a green belt.. and I have photos... wow.. all that and Texas too...
I know in 1992 I was passed to hachidan.. and two days later I was passed to kudan..
WOW.. I must have been gifted..
The gods were looking over my shoulder..
And I didn't pay a thing for it..
I was lucky or just out right on good terms with Sensei..

In my opinion RV Don shihan can hold his own.. and I would love to have him at my side during a conflict..

Hey and I don't feel the judan patch is ugly.. I used the same colors on my own personal Dojo patch.. looks great to me..

Ranking.. really..
What does it mean?

I feel compassion for your foe after the fact is what counts...

And one more thing.. Hatsumi sensei had me teaching a few times while I was in Japan too..
Look I'm a god now.. wow..
Come on..
Joke right.. means nothing..

I remember talking with Charles D. shihan once.. sensei passed him a menkyo.. through another member.. Charles D. shihan said he hasn't even seen sensei in a couple of years...

Chuck D. was my teacher.. he went to Japan as a nidan can back a yondan.. in two weeks.. and took the godan a few months after that.. in 1988...

I mean how long should it take or what should in reality should a person do skilled wise to reach a shodan... or sandan.. or godan.. or nanadan.. or kudan.. or etc... ?

Doesn't look or have much meaning now does it... to be ranked in the Bujinkan and some other martial arts from what I have experienced...

People can say what ever they want over the phone or e-mail or even a forum.. they can be the highest ranked or the most skilled... in their little world...
But really..
What is the martail arts about now?

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

How long did yours take Donny sensei ?
You were a green belt when I already had my godan right.. and that was 1991 in Texas…

Errr, I am afraid you are quite wrong. Maybe you have me mixed up with someone else. I was wearing a black belt at that hell hole of a Tai Kai.

But this obviously is a sore point with you and you probably should be left alone to deal with your problems.

 

[Dale Seago]

What is his damn rank anyways? I saw him (and you) last April and was teasing him about it since he is so humble about the subject. I know he is the highest ranked guy in the Dallas area, but after the way Hatsumi put his trust in him (asking him to teach at the honbu, putting him in charge of part of the Daikomyosai party, etc) I was sure he would make a jump in grade. After all, Hatsumi does give rank for things like hosting tai kais, doing security or providing banners for those events. But Luke was rather tight lipped about whether he got a new rank and I can only tell that he wears the "ugly patch" as I like to call it.

"Last April" sounds like such a long time, when it's only been what, nine weeks? He hasn't said anything, but I can't imagine him NOT having gotten promoted. . .Not necessarily while he was there, as Soke seems to like surprises on occasion: My own last couple of dan grades just showed up in my mailbox without warning.

 

[Dale Seago]

Now in the 2000’s.. what now?
What does it take to be a magadan now.. I hear it only takes a few friends who are already judan .. three to pass you.. or get you passed.. you can say the buddy system words.. in the Bujinkan Dojo these days..

Well, Ben Cole's April Tai Kai report is probably about as current as one can get on the subject. Since I was there, I can vouch for its accuracy. The relevant portions:

Soke spoke widely of Takamatsu's passing, and only gave the Godan on the actual anniversary day (the second day). Of about 25+ people who attempted, 20 or so were turned into mashed potatoes. I think ten people failed in a row before the first one passed.

On the third day, Soke began by announcing that several 15th dans "had been born of me" and that we would come to know who they were in time. Soke also said that there will be no Shidoshi born outside of Japan any longer. Even the 15th dans who may now give the test MUST go to Japan with the candidate and administer the exam in Soke's presence.

Soke also came down hard on people who had taken advantage of his good will, specifically people who recommend their friends for rank, not because of their Budo, but because of their friendship. At one point, he admonished, "This is not about friendship. This is about Budo."

These two announcements are very important and should be viewed by every member of the Bujinkan on the Taikai DVD for full effect of their gravity. There shall be no grey area on these matters.

(Bold-face emphasis is from the original post.)

So basically, the only way to get ranked at 5th dan and above any more is for Soke to see you, which means going to Japan as he's no longer teaching outside the country.

Part of the reason originally for the 3 signatures required on a recommendation letter for 10th dan seems to have been that, in addition to having good physical skills, the candidate should be someone who has the respect of others in the community of shihan and is also someone who "plays well with others" rather than someone who prefers to be a lone wolf, big fish in his own pond, etc. Obviously this process can still be abused, and it appears that Soke is aware that this has occurred.

I think it can be expected that any judan recommendations at this point will be closely scrutinized, and Soke may very well simply veto some of them occasionally.

 

[r.severe]

Yes, Donny sensei.. I have a video tape of Kevin Millis shihan talking about the ranking of his school ...in my room with many others... and what he did before the taikai in Texas... and why...
I believe maybe you forget I'm a close friend of Millis shihan...
We go back a long way...

In fact I have enjoyed the last 5 daikomyosai on DVD...
The many different points of views from everyone there have a great impact on the Bujinkan world wide. A great deal of wonderful people demo and display Hatsumi sensei art with great passion.
I say to understand the Bujinkan in action this is a wonderful manner in which to do so...

I personal have a colication of tapes going back to 1882 of the Bujinkan... some of the most known and unknown names in the art.. system... 100's of tapes.. with so many different points of views..
They are in fact very impressive to watch and remember the history of the growth of the Bujinkan...
The amount of information is a gift...
Many of these are Japanese training in different dojo over the years..
Wonderful..

You see a change in the Bujinkan.. year after year and how the Japanese students, wold wide students and soke make changes too...
What a grovy deal..

I view the Bujinkan in a tri-manner.. past present and future... as one..

As for community of the Bujinkan.. I don't see how this matters.. they are not on the mat with you or there holding pads everyday.. sweat.. pain and dedication.... they are not there with family issuses.. or feeling your body grow old..
And I have never watched or heard of anyone being tested in the Bujinkan before godan testing. or any ranking for that matter..
So who knows what others know unless they are involved with you on a daily basis..?
Having a beer with you does not mean they know their head from their back side...
This seems to be the brotherhood of ranking.. who kisses whos back side.. and who passes money to the others hand...
Yes.. the community...
I have personally watched so much abuse in ranking in the Bujinkan that I don't need anymore for two life times...
In fact...
Why trouble yourself.. ?
What is the goal?

I see the goals being training the ryuha...
Completely..
As a whole..
Understanding and drilling them till they are second nature.. till you become the ryuha.. then letting go.. working on understanding of what it is you have sweat, hurt and painfully worked towards for years...

What does all that ranking have to do with skills?
N O T H I N G ......

Time to do some weights... get some..

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

Damn, we started off talking about Tenjindo, then rank, and somehow we swerved into the size of Ralph's video collection. That last post by Ralph really seems to meander. It started out with "Yes, Donny sensei.. I have a video tape of Kevin Millis shihan talking about the ranking of his school ...in my room with many others... and what he did before the taikai in Texas... and why...
I believe maybe you forget I'm a close friend of Millis shihan...
We go back a long way..." and just went on from there.

I just want to point out that you are wrong about the rank I had at the Texas Tai Kai. Not that I really care about the subject of rank. I see too many people obsese about it in one way or another. I just want to point out that any photos of my ugly mug at that Tai Kai will have to be found on a guy wearing a black belt, or no belt as I usually drop it off with my top when the temperature gets too hot.

 

[Dale Seago]

Damn, we started off talking about Tenjindo, then rank, and somehow we swerved into the size of Ralph's video collection. That last post by Ralph really seems to meander. It started out with "Yes, Donny sensei.. I have a video tape of Kevin Millis shihan talking about the ranking of his school ...in my room with many others... and what he did before the taikai in Texas... and why...
I believe maybe you forget I'm a close friend of Millis shihan...
We go back a long way..." and just went on from there.

Some people just adore the taste of sour grapes, Don:

The Fox and the Grapes

A FAMISHED FOX saw some clusters of ripe black grapes hanging
from a trellised vine. She resorted to all her tricks to get at
them, but wearied herself in vain, for she could not reach them.
At last she turned away, hiding her disappointment and saying:
"The Grapes are sour, and not ripe as I thought."

 

[r.severe]

Now now Dale shihan.. that's not the truth...
Come on now...

I didn't say anything that wasn't truth.
That's the truth..
Bt I did go back and see that Donny sensei was a shodan ...
I was totally wrong..
The point was...
Now...
Is that Kevin Millis shihan said something that was poor in taste towards Donny sensei at the time... about ranking.. and the other 21 who were ranked at the time.. before the taikai..
In my opinion it was poor taste..
But..

Now with Luke shihan..
I have students telling me information as well as James shidoshi...
I don't feel it is in bad taste to repeat what they have said to me about someone else...
And the facts were they gave very good points about the classes and seminars by Luke shihan.. not anything bad at all.. other than Luke shihan trains younger guys when I train more mature guys...
I believe from the conversations the "movie stuff" was referring to the low postures, slow movement, forms, etc...
That's not bad in any way.. not at all..
I did it for many eyars till I progressed..
Hey I feel everyone needs 'movie stuff' at first..

Never the less.. who cares..

ok.. Why not just ask me what I think or feel.. and I wouldn't mind at all giving my opinion.. LOL.. like I always do..

ralph severe, kamiyama
What's bad about that?

 

[Don Roley]

I believe from the conversations the "movie stuff" was referring to the low postures, slow movement, forms, etc...

Hey, I like that type of training! Well, that is to say I don't find it pleasent, but getting down as low as possible and slowly going through the motions is about the best way of learning ways of moving I can think of. Your thighs burn like a mother if you are out of shape. It can be quite painfull. But if you can move when you **** is only a few inches off the ground, it is so much easier by comparison to move at normal height.

I never trained like that in America. But when I got to Japan one of my seniors in class took me aside and ran me ragged getting my basics up to Japan standards. I got comments on my improvements within a few weeks.

When I practice solo, a majority of what I do is this slow type of training. I slow things down to the point where I am in control of everything my body is doing. I will never forget being shown a video of a guy who called himself the "king of combat" and using the "slow" button to see how much of his movements worked against each other and tension and such slowed him down. I take tapes of Noguchi, Hatsumi, etc and I see no such faults. I train as I wish to fight and when I can I insure that there is no bad habits like I mentioned by slowing things down to the point where I can be in control of everything.

When working out with others, I match their speed of course.

Good to see that Luke is training like we did in Japan. He is a great guy. Humble, combat experienced and always eager to learn.

How did we end up talking about him?