Tameshigiri (Test Cutting) video guide

[Czlowiekfala]

Okay. This is what I was getting at... if it's a catalogue of "techniques", or sequences, as a form of instruction, are you in a position to be teaching them? Not sure about Toyama Ryu, but in classical systems, leaving a school does give rise to issues of continuing to teach it's methods.

Am I in postion to teach them? Really good question - I have been helping students with preparation for various exams - Kyu and lower Dan (with a permision from my Toyama Ryu Sensei). I am quite quite confident in my technique but also aware there is still much to learn for me on the Way of the Sword. But to answer your question - Yes, I think so.

Cool. Here's the thing, though... most classical systems approach their study through swordsmanship, rather than approaching a study of swordsmanship, if that makes sense... what I mean by this is that each school is more focused on the tactical and philosophical aspects, which are then enshrined and expressed through the techniques themselves... so you can't just learn different school's techniques and think you're actually learning anything about the school itself or it's actual teachings.

Agree. This is why I am going to devote lot of time to get know them correctly.

Awesome. So we're dojo-mates, then! Who are you training with, or where? I can't find a location on your profile...

Nice! I am from Warsaw, Poland

Hence my asking about your rank and authority within Toyama Ryu. I'm not sure what Toyama's ranking situation is...is Sandan a teaching rank?

In my former martial art club - as soon as you reached 1st Dan you were able to help Sensei with trainings - for example teach kihon to begginers. There was no set limit were one was allowed to teach. Personally I think it depends on the individual. Some people after reaching the 1st Dan have a long way to go to teach anything anyone. For others teaching even with lower Dan rank comes naturally. For me it took me about 7 - 8 years of training to start giving some advice about basic techniques

which means that the idea of there being one "correct technique" doesn't really work... mind you, you can't just try to mix and match the methodologies of the various approaches... they are all internally congruent, but not necessarily congruent with each other.

I agree. I have experienced that first handly after starting Katori Shinto Ryu. My way of cutting, postion and many other things were incorrect according to the style ...and that is fine. Different styles have different approaches - and this is what makes them interesting and unique.

I hope you don't see any of this as discouraging, or dismissive... it's not intended in any such way... I think it's great that you're devoting yourself to the study fo the sword, and, as a dojo-mate, I wish the best success for your study of Shinto Ryu... but my allegiance is to the ryu first... which means I will look to it's protection and proper transmission first and foremost.

I am used to critique and I welcome it. It is a best way to improve. Thanks for all the comments

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Am I in postion to teach them? Really good question - I have been helping students with preparation for various exams - Kyu and lower Dan (with a permision from my Toyama Ryu Sensei). I am quite quite confident in my technique but also aware there is still much to learn for me on the Way of the Sword. But to answer your question - Yes, I think so.

Is there a formal point where your sensei gives you permission to teach, or is it more ambiguous? For instance, I had to get a menkyo in order to teach in one of my style, in another I was just asked "hey can you teach today", after I had been qausi-teaching the newer belts for a while.

 

[dvcochran]

Is there a formal point where your sensei gives you permission to teach, or is it more ambiguous? For instance, I had to get a menkyo in order to teach in one of my style, in another I was just asked "hey can you teach today", after I had been qausi-teaching the newer belts for a while.

It is a common requirement in most TMA. Often a requirement pre BB testing.

 

[Czlowiekfala]

Is there a formal point where your sensei gives you permission to teach, or is it more ambiguous? For instance, I had to get a menkyo in order to teach in one of my style, in another I was just asked "hey can you teach today", after I had been qausi-teaching the newer belts for a while.

As you probably know Toyama Ryu follows standard Japanese martial arts rank system. So in my former club there were six students ranks (from 6th Kyu to 1st Kyu) - and then Dan Ranks. Formal point for giving instructions was 1st Dan, however sometimes students with 1st Kyu were showing some basic things (such as postions or how to hold a sword) to beginners. Personally for me it took 6 years to reach the 1st Dan ( I am a slow learner ) Is the 1st Dan too early to start giving instructions? As I mentioned before I think it depends on the individual.

 

[Chris Parker]

Am I in postion to teach them? Really good question - I have been helping students with preparation for various exams - Kyu and lower Dan (with a permision from my Toyama Ryu Sensei). I am quite quite confident in my technique but also aware there is still much to learn for me on the Way of the Sword. But to answer your question - Yes, I think so.

Hmm... not exactly what I'm asking. My apologies if I wasn't clear... I wasn't asking if you felt like you were able to teach, or comfortable with your skill level to teach... I was asking if you had authority to teach Toyama Ryu material... and, a follow up, if you attained a teaching rank/authority, does that remain if you have left the school?

Agree. This is why I am going to devote lot of time to get know them correctly.

Okay.

Nice! I am from Warsaw, Poland

Cool, thanks for that! I'm assuming you're with Rafal, then?

In my former martial art club - as soon as you reached 1st Dan you were able to help Sensei with trainings - for example teach kihon to begginers. There was no set limit were one was allowed to teach. Personally I think it depends on the individual. Some people after reaching the 1st Dan have a long way to go to teach anything anyone. For others teaching even with lower Dan rank comes naturally. For me it took me about 7 - 8 years of training to start giving some advice about basic techniques

Okay... helping sensei is one thing... but I was asking about the specific requirements and regulations of Toyama Ryu... not a personal, individual thing. And, again, the question is, if Toyama Ryu has a specific grade to allow you to be an instructor, have you reached it? If so, does the authority remain if you leave the school, to enable you to teach their material? If not, under what authority do you teach?

Basically, I'm asking if you have permission to teach Toyama Ryu material if you are no longer part of the group. When it comes to Koryu (such as Katori Shinto Ryu), it would be an absolute no, if you left, regardless of rank attained (save for Menkyo Kaiden or similar, and even then in certain circumstances). If you don't, I might suggest changing your approach to more of your own personal expression... your call, of course, but such things can be looked down upon by others... which could hamper further progress if you're seen as disrespecting the views and authority of your former school. Oh, but don't put any Shinto Ryu up without checking with your teacher (Rafal?) first... and don't be upset if/when the answer is no... we're quite protective that way.

I agree. I have experienced that first handly after starting Katori Shinto Ryu. My way of cutting, postion and many other things were incorrect according to the style ...and that is fine. Different styles have different approaches - and this is what makes them interesting and unique.

Sure... but understanding why is the real key....

I am used to critique and I welcome it. It is a best way to improve. Thanks for all the comments

No problem.

I'm going to break up the next part... purely for clarification.

As you probably know Toyama Ryu follows standard Japanese martial arts rank system.

While there are certain similarities between a number of Japanese martial systems, there really is no such thing as a "standard" rank system, other than one that is standardised to the particular art/organisation it's being applied to... hence the questions. For example, many of the Gendai budo, particularly Iaido, Jodo, Jukendo, Atarashii Naginata etc, have a requirement of Godan (5th Dan) to be qualified as an instructor... but other arts don't have that requirement. Then, the application of dan ranking is always particular to the group... then you have the older ranking forms, particularly menkyo-ranking (licensing). They don't actually even refer to ranking in the same thing, or with the same criteria.... the Dan ranking approach is a modern one, and first applied by Jigoro Kano to indicate skill attained... whereas Menkyo ranking was more about authority within the school and the amount of material that had been covered... some schools apply ranking to incorporate both... others don't...

So in my former club there were six students ranks (from 6th Kyu to 1st Kyu) - and then Dan Ranks. Formal point for giving instructions was 1st Dan, however sometimes students with 1st Kyu were showing some basic things (such as postions or how to hold a sword) to beginners.

Cool. Was Shodan the formal ranking for teaching in the dojo, or in Toyama Ryu itself? Just interested here, really.

Personally for me it took 6 years to reach the 1st Dan ( I am a slow learner )

Ha, well, if you think that's slow......... Sugino-dojo Shinto Ryu might be quite a shock for you! We recently had two students grade to Shodan in Perth, each of which have been training well over a decade...

Is the 1st Dan too early to start giving instructions? As I mentioned before I think it depends on the individual.

It depends on the school, really... far more than the individual. After all, what is 1st Dan? It's only what the school itself says it is....

 

[Czlowiekfala]

Hmm... not exactly what I'm asking. My apologies if I wasn't clear... I wasn't asking if you felt like you were able to teach, or comfortable with your skill level to teach... I was asking if you had authority to teach Toyama Ryu material... and, a follow up, if you attained a teaching rank/authority, does that remain if you have left the school?

Ok. You mean do I have something like official document that allows me to teach, etc? Besides Dan Rank certifications from Japan, no. Being in my school or not I still have the rank, but of course whether this is enough authority to teach - hmm, it is a difficult question to answer and it really depends on the perspective. If some people will look down due to lack of back up from the school that is perfectly ok. As long as others will find the videos usefull - this is all I hope for

Cool, thanks for that! I'm assuming you're with Rafal, then?

Actually no. I am practicing with his former students who left the club some time ago. As a group we have official permission from Sugino Sensei to exist. Of course we take part in official seminars ect.The group's name is Toriigakure.

If you don't, I might suggest changing your approach to more of your own personal expression... your call, of course, but such things can be looked down upon by others... which could hamper further progress if you're seen as disrespecting the views and authority of your former school. Oh, but don't put any Shinto Ryu up without checking with your teacher (Rafal?) first... and don't be upset if/when the answer is no... we're quite protective that way.

No worries - as for Katori Shinto Ryu I consider myself a beginner. I am not going to create videos about school that I have no knowledge about it. Same goes with Shinkendo.