Taiyoku Jiu Jitsu Kickboxing and Traditional Karate

[Em MacIntosh]

Another problem with non-profit karate, my long lost instructor from '96-'01, was unable to continue teaching due to his work schedule. I have since been searching for another instructor of this art and haven't found anyone. Our katas were pinan, naifanshin, gojoshiho, rohai, taiyoku and kusanku (a few others I forget too). I think this is based on Kyokushinkai, shotokan or another of the "zenkutsu-dachi styles" (long stance karate).
I'm anxious to re-learn these kata as well (I remember them somewhere in my brain). Also, I know I'm not spelling taiKyoku. I find it strange because it seems taiyoku isn't a real word. All my certificates are in another province and I'm still moving stuff over. I'll have to double check the name but I'm pretty sure we call it taiyoku instead of taiKyoku. This, I think, raises a bit of a red flag, but it's the instructor that counts, and he was a great instructor.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

If anyone studies this, knows where to look up any info on it or can refer me to a karate style that includes the above kata (the "crane stance rohai" BTW) it would be much apreciated. Also, does anyone know, have trained with or have heard of an ornery texan 5th-dan named Murray Mathews, who lives in Alberta, Canada (specific as I'll get) and if so mention that I'm looking for him? Thanks.

 

[Andrew Green]

Doesn't look like either Kyokushin or Shotokan based on the kata list. Somethng Shorin ryu related or based by the looks of things.

Chances are it was not a single style, but a merging of a couple things, possibly unique to your club.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

My instructor at the time occasionally mentioned some of his past training. I'm sure there's lots I don't know but some the ones (karate) he mentioned were kyokushinkai and shotokan. I'm guessinng he might have taken training in, say, shorin-ryu but might have moved into kyokushinkai for more full contact. It's hard to tell based on his technique as he's studied muay thai, hwarang-do, TKD, Jiu-Jitsu and probably a few others. He's been geographically fortunate enough to be close to a lot of seminars from people like Gracie Casillas-Bogs, Dan Inosanto and Joe Lewis before he moved to Alberta. It's hard to tell but what you mentioned is all I've got. Seems to me I remember those kata being on the shorin-ryu list but It's not my style so I'll have to look it up. We also had a kata called Taiyoku (not taiKyoku as far as I remember), though it was only one kata as far as I learned. We also did pinan (though, again this came after kata 1 and kata 2 and was just one kata, not a series). It seems to me (let's assume for a second it is taiKyoku) that these are found in shotokan, though as a series, each including a few kata. Anyway, thanks for the input.

 

[Andrew Green]

naming is wrong though, you are using Okinawan Names, Shotokan has different names for all those Kata.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Well, it's probably not shotokan then. I definitely know he trained in kyokushinkai, but I don't think he got the kata from there. Where are neifanshin, gojoshiho and kusanku from? Goju-Ryu perhaps?

 

[Andrew Green]

Naihanchi I think is the first, different groups use different spellings. Common to pretty much all the shuri / tamari branches of karate. Some styles have one, others have a set of 3. Shotokan calls them Tekki.

Kusanku is also very common in Shorin ryu based styles, usually as one of the more advanced ones. Kanku dai in Shotokan, which also has a kanku sho I believe.

Gojushiho I believe is also Shorin ryu, off hand I can't remember if Shotokan has it under a different name or not.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

How much do zenkutsu dachi and kiba dachi narrow it down? Probably not much.

 

[Andrew Green]

The high emphasis on deep stances is more of a Japanese thing.

It's possible however that whoever assembled the "style" adapted stances and technique details to match their primary style.

I imagine you could find videos of all of these on youtube or google videos, finding a version that looks more or less like yours should give you an idea what its origins where.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I'm losing interest in origin. We never stressed kata a lot but kept it as part of the curriculum and grading requirements. Karate only formed a third of our training in this style though as we concentrated on kickboxing and jiu jitsu a lot. As always it's the instructor, not the "style". It was definitely more effective for me for self defense than just traditional karate. To each his own anyway. Cheers.

 

[chinto]

Well, it's probably not shotokan then. I definitely know he trained in kyokushinkai, but I don't think he got the kata from there. Where are neifanshin, gojoshiho and kusanku from? Goju-Ryu perhaps?

gojushiho and kusanku are from the shori te and tamari te liniges. ( most of the tamari if not all of it has been absorbed by shorin ryu styles. my style is 70% or so tamari. not sure on heifanshin.. but shorin styles have naihanchi kata .. diferent name for the same kata perhaps?

 

[chinto]

How much do zenkutsu dachi and kiba dachi narrow it down? Probably not much.

not a huge amount. zenkutsu dachi and kiba dachi are both okinawan style stances. remember that funikoshi who modified what would be kobayashi shorin ryu into shotokan ( shoto was funikoshi's pen name as a scribe, and kan means "gym" basicly.) he modified what he learned from Anko Itosu to fit the japanese sensiblilitys. so he took the two stances from shorin, but he made shotokan much more a "hard style" and deepend the stances and made it much much more liner then the oringinal Okinawan styles are.