Taijiquan (tai chi chuan)... so what do you think

[Xue Sheng]

T'ai chi ch'uan, 太极拳, 太極拳, tàijíquán, t'ai4 chi2 ch'üan2, Supreme Ultimate Fist; I know what I think, I have trained for a few years, and a few styles, but I am wondering what others think, this is purely out of curiosity, no judgment or argument from me.

What do you think it is?

What do you think it does, what is your opinion of it, do you think it is a martial art, do you think it is moving meditation, do you think it is a waste of time or do you think something else completely?


Note
I put this in General Martial Arts Talk because I wanted to hear from more than CMA people of ICMA people.

 

[chinto]

the style I saw oh 25 years ago or so is a long fist kung fu style. the individual knew the martial aspects of the style and how to train in it for self defense as well as the 'standard health' aspects type training. what I saw was a very effective martial art. ( I am a Karateka, so you may take my opinion with a grain of salt as you wish... oh no refunds on the two cents!! :drinkbeer )

 

[chrispillertkd]

Tai Chi is a very effective martial art, when executed by someone who knows what they are doing. Unfortunately, I have seen more than one demonstration of Tai Chi by people who either didn't know what they were doing or were just trying to pass themselves off as something they weren't. They were New Age-y types so I wasn't looking necessarily for martial applications (which I seriously doubt they knew), but the fact that the instructor visibly shook during his performance because he had "too much Chi" was rather ... interesting.

That being said, I know a couple of friends who have studied Wu style Tai Chi. They have both demonstrated applications on me and I can tell you from personal experience that it can be very effective.

Pax,

Chris

 

[WC_lun]

I studied Bejinng Yang style Tai Chi for many years. I enjoyed it a lot, though the way it was taught lacked real martial application. I still practice it for the health benefits. I do not practice it for self defense, I have my Wing Chun sifu for that. I am not bad mouthing Tai Chi as a martial art, only saying it was taught to me with major holes in the martial part, as many Tai Chi instructors tend to do.

 

[oaktree]

What do you think it is?

I think anything past Chen village things get murky. So I am going to say Martial art forms combined with Daoist neidan exercises and general Daoist thought.

What do you think it does

Hopefully if applied correctly allows you to do what ever it is you want to do with it.

what is your opinion of it

A contradiction, a journey, a parable, painful, beautiful.

do you think it is a martial art

If applied correctly a very effective painful one.

do you think it is moving meditation,

Some people get way deep into that. I am sure you have seen Jwing Ming Yang's Taiji theory book or Chen Xin's Taijiquan book they get into some deep heavy stuff with Taijiquan.

do you think it is a waste of time or do you think something else completely?

Most likely not a good way to pick up girls. school children will laugh at you, middle age men will think you are non manly, but old people and new age weirdos will love you. If you do it correctly it is a great investment looking back from when I first started I think wow what a difference.

 

[Cyriacus]

I havent done any way shape or form of Tai Chi - It isnt the kind of thing Im interested in. But, I do think that it has a nice flavor.

 

[geezer]

Back when I was a college student in the 70s, when I first got interested in Chinese Martial Arts, I hung around with some oddball new-agey types who were into beating drums, yoga, tai chi, and a moderate amount of substance abuse. I remember getting a book on Yang style done for health by Herman Kaus (?). I began training a semi-phony, chop suey shaolin system that pretended to teach some tai-chi. Looking back, I'd bet the Shifu's Tai chi was out of a book too. He was also into "Transcendental Meditation"...remember that? At that time it seemed like every Kempo and Kung-fu school taught some BS tai-chi as a "part of their system". You still see that a lot of places, even today. LOL.

Anyway, I finished school, moved back home to Arizona and stumbled into Wing Chun. I also had a bad accident that caused traumatic arthritis and severely restricted movement in my left ankle. That on top of a congenital condition that already prevented lateral flexion in my ankle joints. I was still able to do WC with a compromised stance, but Tai-chi was out of the question. Every time I bend my knees and sink my weight, my left heel comes up off the ground, and it hurts too. You can't do tai-chi teetering on your tip-toes, tensed up because you are in pain. So from that point on, my interest in tai-chi became purely that of an occasional spectator.

I will say this. I've met a lot of new age health fanatics who love tai-chi, but never move beyond doing the forms slowly. No push hands or sparring. On the other extreme was a guy name Michael Leung who owned a Chinese restaurant called the "King Wah" and taught a few Chinese kids after closing, out back behind the overflowing and foul smelling dumpster. One of those kids was a Wing Chun buddy of mine as well as this guy's tai-chi student. Furthermore the instructor, Michael, was somewhat in awe of my famous Sifu from Hong Kong, so I was the lone "gwai-lo" invited to watch or join-in and spar. These guys didn't spend time on forms when I was there. It was all fighting. I saw plenty of bruising, busted lips, and bloody noses. It was definitely a martial art and not at all "new-agey"!

Along the same lines, when I was starting out in WC/WT in the early 80's, I remember foolishly asking my old Chinese WT Sifu what were the most effective martial arts besides his own. At first, with truly classic arrogance he dismissed the question saying that of course his art was the best, and that was that. Otherwise we should stop wasting his time and find another sifu. Still, I pressed the question, asking that, supposing his art had not been invented, what would his second choice of martial art have been? He paused, and then said, "That's easy. Tai-chi. Not the tai-chi you think of. The real fighting tai-chi. But you don't know about that here in America."

So I guess I don't really know what tai-chi is at all. It seems to change a lot with who's doing it and what their objectives are. Now Xue, stop holding back and enlighten us. We know you've been at this for a very time.

 

[jasonbrinn]

I have personally spent the better part of the last 30 years learning and searching the arts. My main focus has always been functional application of the arts for self defense and survival. I train my own thing now but if I could only train one art that was not my own it would be some form of Tai Chi. I prefer Emei above all and Chen next, last being Yang. I have required all of the people I have promoted to instructor level to train it. I like "Grand Terminus" over Supreme Ultimate but either way you cut it I don't see anything nears its league.

Jason Brinn

 

[geezer]

I train my own thing now but if I could only train one art that was not my own it would be some form of Tai Chi. I prefer Emei above all and Chen next, last being Yang. --Jason Brinn

Chen, Yang, Wu, Sun ...is there really an Emei taiji branch too? I know there's some even some people who claim to have Emei Wing Chun! Whatever. I thought all that Emei stuff was Chinese folklore about legendary martial heroes...

I suppose it's all really just so many names until you find a qualified teacher and work with him for a few years. You can't tell what a style offers from Youtube clips, that's for sure. And, even more than most systems, the taijiquan I've seen is all about balance and energy, not just "techniques". So Jason, from some of your other posts, I thought you were more technique oriented. Please clarify. What leads you to make the choices listed above?

 

[jks9199]

Tai Chi is a term that got co-opted by the New Age granola eating hippies who were only interested in a very superficial use and understanding of a series of potentially very powerful and effective fighting techniques.

It's also a shorthand description for how to practice slowly, with an emphasis on proper body alignment and technique rather than power, inspired by the martial art, for my students.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Chen, Yang, Wu, Sun ...is there really an Emei taiji branch too? I know there's some even some people who claim to have Emei Wing Chun! Whatever. I thought all that Emei stuff was Chinese folklore about legendary martial heroes...

I suppose it's all really just so many names until you find a qualified teacher and work with him for a few years. You can't tell what a style offers from Youtube clips, that's for sure. And, even more than most systems, the taijiquan I've seen is all about balance and energy, not just "techniques". So Jason, from some of your other posts, I thought you were more technique oriented. Please clarify. What leads you to make the choices listed above?

THere is a lot of Emei stuff that is obscure or unknown outside of Emei... there is also a lot of stuff claiming to be Emei that isn't too. But there are a lot of taiji styles that are not as well known as Chan, Yang, Wu, Wu/Hao and Sun. Those are also the 5 recognized by the PRC. However there is a 6th style that claims to predate Chen or be as old as Chen and that is Zhaobao. But it appears that it comes directly from Chen and if you see the 2 together they have a lot of similarities. And there are some pretty impressive Zhaobao fighters in Mainlaind China

 

[jasonbrinn]

Chen, Yang, Wu, Sun ...is there really an Emei taiji branch too? I know there's some even some people who claim to have Emei Wing Chun! Whatever. I thought all that Emei stuff was Chinese folklore about legendary martial heroes...

I suppose it's all really just so many names until you find a qualified teacher and work with him for a few years. You can't tell what a style offers from Youtube clips, that's for sure. And, even more than most systems, the taijiquan I've seen is all about balance and energy, not just "techniques". So Jason, from some of your other posts, I thought you were more technique oriented. Please clarify. What leads you to make the choices listed above?

Something I often scratch my head about honestly. I am not sure how or why what I write comes across the way it does but I am just a person you have to know in life to know. I really don't care about techniques at all.

My Martial Arts career is all about fighting and finding the best ways to defend myself and others. Tai Chi is the strongest art for fighting that I have ever seen. I have studied Tai Chi since 94 starting with a Shanghai form passed down from Richard Kim. I still study Tai Chi even though I have my own system.

 

[GaryR]

T'ai chi ch'uan, 太极拳, 太極拳, tàijíquán, t'ai4 chi2 ch'üan2, Supreme Ultimate Fist; I know what I think, I have trained for a few years, and a few styles, but I am wondering what others think, this is purely out of curiosity, no judgment or argument from me.

What do you think it is?

What do you think it does, what is your opinion of it, do you think it is a martial art, do you think it is moving meditation, do you think it is a waste of time or do you think something else completely?


Note
I put this in General Martial Arts Talk because I wanted to hear from more than CMA people of ICMA people.

Well, from experience, Tai Chi Chuan is a highly effective martial art, done correctly, one of the best actually. Unfortunately as many here have mentioned its become watered into a health stance for the masses.

Tai Chi Chuan is about maximizing your body-alignment for power, being soft, yet hard enough to get the job done--like a ghost with a sledge-hammer. TJQ is about tactile sensitivity drills, learning where your opponent is by touch, were they are going, and were their center of balance is.

If one needs Wing Chun to supplement their Tai Chi, they are simply ignorant to the full TJQ martial side. WC is however a very good art, without a good Tai Chi teacher, it is a great substitute.

It it also a moving meditation, so if folks want it just for that--great. Meditation is more useful in everyday life anyhow, especially if you are not in situations where you need to defend yourself.

best,

Gary