East Winds
2nd Black Belt
"The people who say Taiji lineage is unimportant, are generally those who don't have any!!"
Comments??
Best wishes
East Winds
Comments??
Best wishes
East Winds
Taiji Lineage
- Thread starter East Winds
- Start date
I wouldn't go so far as to make that much of a blanket statement, but ok.
I can see both sides. Its important in the way that knowing your ancestry is important. It doesn't neccessarily prove anything about your skill, so I can see how its unimportant as well.
7sm
I can see both sides. Its important in the way that knowing your ancestry is important. It doesn't neccessarily prove anything about your skill, so I can see how its unimportant as well.
7sm
wingchunner
Orange Belt
Lineage is important. It is difficult to understand when there are so many people who claim to be experts in tai chi (or any other martial art, for that matter). Part of the "mysterious transmission" is given from master to disciple/student, this can only be accomplished through "lineage" and hands on training. Without it, it might nearly be impossible to attain extremely high level of skill.
This "mysterious transmission" can be sensitivity training, energy flow and timing training, special techniques, and penetrating power training, to name just a few aspects. In many of todays western schools, it sounds a little rediculous. But, from my training/teaching experience, lineage is important. Without it, maybe if you're really, really intelligent, lucky, and work 8-12 hours a day on developing skill (especially internal) you'll figure some of it out.
Any way. My short 2 cents.
Martin Yoder
This "mysterious transmission" can be sensitivity training, energy flow and timing training, special techniques, and penetrating power training, to name just a few aspects. In many of todays western schools, it sounds a little rediculous. But, from my training/teaching experience, lineage is important. Without it, maybe if you're really, really intelligent, lucky, and work 8-12 hours a day on developing skill (especially internal) you'll figure some of it out.
Any way. My short 2 cents.
Martin Yoder
I didn't think we were talking about having a teacher vs studying on your own. If having a teacher is your definition of lineage, then yes. I just thought we were talking about your lineage in and of itself being important.
East Winds, care to clearify your question for us a bit?
7sm
East Winds, care to clearify your question for us a bit?
7sm
OP
East Winds
2nd Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #5
7star and wingchuner,
I agree with both your posts. Basically I think lineaged teaching should demonstrate a purity of form that comes straight from its founder without deviation. Having said that of course, Yang Cheng-fu changed Yang Lu Chan's form and therefore really I suppose, started a new lineage!! Even the two brothers Yang Zhen Duo and Yang Zhen Ji teach slightly different forms which came from their father Yang Cheng-fu!! However the important thing about both their teachings is that they teach the principles of the Yang form as set down by Yang Cheng-fu. (and that, without compromise or deviation). I wholeheartedly agree that lineage is no indication of ability. It does however show where your form is coming from and as a teacher, it should indicate some form of knowledge of the original form. Again, I know some teachers who have attended a couple of seminars with lineaged teachers and then claim that their own teaching is lineaged!!! The question (statement) came from a lineaged Master and I wondered what others thought about it.
best wishes
East Winds
I agree with both your posts. Basically I think lineaged teaching should demonstrate a purity of form that comes straight from its founder without deviation. Having said that of course, Yang Cheng-fu changed Yang Lu Chan's form and therefore really I suppose, started a new lineage!! Even the two brothers Yang Zhen Duo and Yang Zhen Ji teach slightly different forms which came from their father Yang Cheng-fu!! However the important thing about both their teachings is that they teach the principles of the Yang form as set down by Yang Cheng-fu. (and that, without compromise or deviation). I wholeheartedly agree that lineage is no indication of ability. It does however show where your form is coming from and as a teacher, it should indicate some form of knowledge of the original form. Again, I know some teachers who have attended a couple of seminars with lineaged teachers and then claim that their own teaching is lineaged!!! The question (statement) came from a lineaged Master and I wondered what others thought about it.
best wishes
East Winds
H
Hammer Head
Guest
Lineage? Yes it is important. It has to do about who you learned your art from and where your teacher learned his art from and so on....
I think this is important!
I think this is important!
OP
East Winds
2nd Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #7
I agree entirely. I also think that to be able to claim a lineage, you must be recognised by the lineage holder as being one of his students. Merely attending a couple of seminars with a lineage holder should not quanlify.
Very best wishes
East Winds
Very best wishes
East Winds
V
vampyre_rat
Guest
totally agree with the fact that to name someone as your teacher, you should have had some 'quality time' with them, not just a couple of hours. Unfortunately there is no regulations preventing 'teachers' from saying that they've studied with ABC, XYZ, or PQR and using their lineage as being their own.
It's good to know your lineage is valid and that you are following a recognised line, but its hard to tell if your lineage is true until you've been around the block a few times. Then you may see that what you thought was real was far from it.
Lineage is important up to a point. It indicates the history of your style and can be an indicator of its validity. However we still cannot guarantee expertise purely from the lineage you are from.
It's good to know your lineage is valid and that you are following a recognised line, but its hard to tell if your lineage is true until you've been around the block a few times. Then you may see that what you thought was real was far from it.
Lineage is important up to a point. It indicates the history of your style and can be an indicator of its validity. However we still cannot guarantee expertise purely from the lineage you are from.
OP
East Winds
2nd Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #9
vampyre_rat,
Good post. "Then you may see that what you thought was real was far from it"
Oh yes!!!! Been round that block a few times!!!!! and down that blind alley more than once!!!! After 15 years of working on various versions of the Yang form, for the past 5 years I have been working on Traditional Yang Family Taijiquan on a syllabus by a lineaged master who comes from Yang Zhen-ji and who has also worked with Yang Zhen-duo. You know when it's the real thing!! But in order to know, you need to have experienced the "bad" stuff. And there is a lot of that out there!!
Very best wishes
East WInds
Good post. "Then you may see that what you thought was real was far from it"
Oh yes!!!! Been round that block a few times!!!!! and down that blind alley more than once!!!! After 15 years of working on various versions of the Yang form, for the past 5 years I have been working on Traditional Yang Family Taijiquan on a syllabus by a lineaged master who comes from Yang Zhen-ji and who has also worked with Yang Zhen-duo. You know when it's the real thing!! But in order to know, you need to have experienced the "bad" stuff. And there is a lot of that out there!!
Very best wishes
East WInds
