Tai Chi vs. MMA from Daoist Gate - Blog Post

[Xue Sheng]

Tai Chi vs. MMA from Daoist Gate

 

[drop bear]

You should never have to take someone's word that you can use martial arts to fight with.

It is like an adult creepy version of this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My look on it is you can either train to fight or don't. Just don't lie to yourself about which one you are doing.

It is not realistic to think that you can be really good at something you don't train. That's the story that China needs to stop telling. Even after the embarrassment they claim that kung fu is a killing art.

 

[Flying Crane]

Apparently a video went viral and sent ripples thru the martial arts community? I didn't get the memo. Or the virus...

 

[Kurt L.]

The guy was a masseuse by trade, wasn't he? I'm pretty new to Tai Chi, but it sounds like the "woo woo" was held to account.

 

[mograph]

As a former tai chi guy, I find these events uncomfortable on a number of levels:

• truth: most tai chi teachers know nothing of martial arts.
• tai chi as a fighting art is dying, and I don't know if it will survive.
• tai chi people have been embarrassed by the MMA artist, and as above, we are embarrassed because of the truth.
• there is a childish disrespect and self-aggrandizement shown by this man and many MMA followers, which, along with an increased desire for immediate gratification, I see increasing in the industrialized world. There's nothing wrong with MMA, I just don't like how it seems to attract more a-holes than traditional CMA/JMA/FMA and so on do. Patience and diligence seems to be dying. Maybe this is nothing new, since other arts used to attract a-holes. Maybe the whole process is just faster now.
  
• self-aggrandizement is also present in traditional martial arts (TMA), only it seems to be realized in "I'm slower and more careful than you, therefore I am better." Maybe this hubris is helping to kill TMA -- it was surely the downfall of the TMA artist humbled by the MMA artist.

We need more of what we see in this video, I think. Here's Ian Sinclair again:

 

[Flying Crane]

Honestly, this does not bother me at all. And I too am an ex-Taiji guy.

 

[Headhunter]

No one cares people will carry on doing tai chi just as people have carried on doing every martial art through every different era

 

[Flying Crane]

Let's be honest: most people can't fight, no matter what system they train. Most people don't train realistically. That's life.

But that is a fault of the individual and how it has been passed along to him, and the failings in the instruction he has received and in his own training methods. It is not an endictment of the system itself.

Really honestly, so what? This means nothing.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Did Xu, all by himself, with his video, upset me so much that I made the posts I made and linked the sites I linked????

no..... It just seems to be the straw that broke the camels back......

 

[Steve]

Let's be honest: most people can't fight, no matter what system they train. Most people don't train realistically. That's life.

But that is a fault of the individual and how it has been passed along to him, and the failings in the instruction he has received and in his own training methods. It is not an endictment of the system itself.

Really honestly, so what? This means nothing.

I disagree. I think most people who train boxing, BJJ, wrestling, judo, Muay Thai, MMA, or any other sport oriented art can fight. Doesn't mean they are war machines or lack gaps in their training. Doesn't mean they have no bad habits. But if you apply what you're learning, it will be there when you need it. people who train the styles above can do those styles under pressure. Other styles? I guess it's up to the individual.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Steve, not all BJJ, MMA, Muay Thai guys can fight. I have been in plenty a gym where there is a massive hierarchy between the good practitioner's and those that come in once in a while and treat it like a hobby. This is particularly true in mma gyms I have checked out here in Las Vegas. A little less in BJJ and a lot, lot, lot less in Muay Thai. Still there are guys that can't fight practicing sporting based martial arts. Most that I have encountered are the once or twice a week hobbyists though.

 

[Headhunter]

Steve, not all BJJ, MMA, Muay Thai guys can fight. I have been in plenty a gym where there is a massive hierarchy between the good practitioner's and those that come in once in a while and treat it like a hobby. This is particularly true in mma gyms I have checked out here in Las Vegas. A little less in BJJ and a lot, lot, lot less in Muay Thai. Still there are guys that can't fight practicing sporting based martial arts. Most that I have encountered are the once or twice a week hobbyists though.

Absolutely I've been in gyms where guys have been training for 10 years and are total garbage and couldn't fight at all but they still come and train and take part because they just enjoy themselves there's nothing wrong with that. People think because you do martial arts you can fight. That's nonsense there's loads of people who've never done a class in there life who can fight. Some people are fighters some aren't and no training will ever change that

 

[Flying Crane]

Did Xu, all by himself, with his video, upset me so much that I made the posts I made and linked the sites I linked????

no..... It just seems to be the straw that broke the camels back......

The failings of some guy is only an example to you of how to not do it, and there are always variables. Beyond that, it means nothing.

The success of some guy is only an example of how it might be done, and there are always variables. Beyond that, it means nothing.

How YOU do it will determine if you fail or succeed. And yes, you guessed it, there are always variables. Take the lessons where they may be found. And then do YOURS.

Beyond that, it means nothing.

Really, I mean that. It means nothing.

 

[Martial D]

The failings of some guy is only an example to you of how to not do it, and there are always variables. Beyond that, it means nothing.

The success of some guy is only an example of how it might be done, and there are always variables. Beyond that, it means nothing.

How YOU do it will determine if you fail or succeed. And yes, you guessed it, there are always variables. Take the lessons where they may be found. And then do YOURS.

Beyond that, it means nothing.

Really, I mean that. It means nothing.

Over the years I've taught many younger fellows the tricks I have learned, whether it be boxing, Wing Chun, The way of no way(what I took from jkd), how to flip someone etcetc..you get the picture.

But here's the thing - some caught on right off, some never did. Some people are naturally aggressive and fearless, others more cautious and timid. Some were naturally coordinated and physically gifted, while some tripped over their own feet.

Some left knowing how to effectively use their body as a weapon, others not so much.

And this is to say nothing on the matter of strength and conditioning.

And all that is only one side of the coin. On the other, you have what is taught. The art itself. Is it workable? And within that, if it is, is it being trained and applied in a practical way?

So you can teach a strong and agile kid total bullshido, and have him fight a clumsy out of shape, or timid kid with decent training and the latter will still get mauled most of the time.

That is to say nothing of the 'style', which is best understood as a category of loosly similar techniques anyway.

 

[Flying Crane]

Over the years I've taught many younger fellows the tricks I have learned over my years, whether it be boxing, Wing Chun, The way of no way(what I took from jkd), how to flip someone etcetc..you get the picture.

But here's the thing - some caught on right off, some never did. Some people are naturally aggressive and fearless, others more cautious and timid. Some were naturally coordinated and physically gifted, while some tripped over their own feet.

Some left knowing how to effectively use their body as a weapon, others not so much.

And this is to say nothing on the matter of strength and conditioning.

And all that is only one side of the coin. On the other, you have what is taught. The art itself. Is it works be? And within that, if it is, is it being trained and applied in a practical way.

So you can teach a strong and agile kid total bullshido, and have him fight a clumsy out of shape, or timid kid with decent training and the latter will still get mauled most of the time.

That is to say nothing of the 'style', which is best understood as a category of loosly similar techniques anyway.

In my opinion, a style has a body of principles that guide how all techniques are done. The techniques are a physical embodiment of the principles. The principles matter more than the specific techniques, but I guess that could be seen as "loosely similar".

 

[Martial D]

In my opinion, a style has a body of principles that guide how all techniques are done. The techniques are a physical embodiment of the principles. The principles matter more than the specific techniques, but I guess that could be seen as "loosely similar".

Agreed, I could have worded it better. But even within styles there can be wildly different principles at play manifesting as wildly different techniques. Compare say, traditional boxing with 52, and compare that to the pugilist style of the early 20th century. It's all boxing right? The same is certainly true of wing Chun as well.

 

[Blindside]

Let's be honest: most people can't fight, no matter what system they train. Most people don't train realistically. That's life.

But that is a fault of the individual and how it has been passed along to him, and the failings in the instruction he has received and in his own training methods. It is not an endictment of the system itself.

Really honestly, so what? This means nothing.

So you have two groups of 5 martial arts students, all you know is that one is a group taken from a boxing gym and one is a group taken from a kung fu school. They are going to do some stand up fighting under san shou rules. Best of five gives the group the win. Which group would you bet on to win?

 

[drop bear]

Let's be honest: most people can't fight, no matter what system they train. Most people don't train realistically. That's life.

But that is a fault of the individual and how it has been passed along to him, and the failings in the instruction he has received and in his own training methods. It is not an endictment of the system itself.

Really honestly, so what? This means nothing.

The system should kind of work though.

I mean if it doesn't it is going to be a pretty big road block on the path to being able to fight.

 

[Kurt L.]

As a former tai chi guy, I find these events uncomfortable on a number of levels:

Are you training anything else? Why the change, if you don't mind me asking?