I don't understand what your problem is. My original post on this thread asked you for information about techniques. It's hard to learn from you if I don't understand what you're doing. I wasn't asking for a cyber lesson, I was asking for a breakdown and explanation of a technique to understand how it works. I don't know of any Systema centers in Israel, so this is the best I've got. If that's not trying to learning, I don't know what is.Paul Genge said:
Systema in motion...
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Paul Genge
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swiftpete
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I think the body movement in systema looks great, i love the way it looks so fluid and relaxed. It does remind me in some ways of ninjutsu, we also do a fair bit of blindfold training now and training where there is no specific technique to do, just them attacking and you utilising your body movement and theirs. So I think it looks good and as for Paul looking too laid back, I think making it look easy and relaxed is what a good instructor should do.
But I do acknowledge that there is no pain like a good hoof right in the balls. Sometimes that is the best thing to do. OOOOf!
But I do acknowledge that there is no pain like a good hoof right in the balls. Sometimes that is the best thing to do. OOOOf!
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Paul Genge
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Got a good kick in the family Jewells practicing working against kicks from the floor and they say that our training lacks reality.....
Paul Genge
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Thanks for posting these, Paul. I really enjoyed watching them - they reminded me of my Tai Chi instructor and his ability to deflect attacks. Systema intrigues me.
Edmund BlackAdder
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I've heard of Systema, now I have an idea what it looks like. Thank you for sharing the clips. I enjoyed them.
Jagermeister
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I'd like to say first that my comments below are not about Systema itself (I don't know enough about it), rather about the video clips themselves.
3 thoughts.
1. The attackers go down so easily that it lacks credibility as a demonstration. In the stick attack video, for example, much of the disarming technique can be simply boiled down to a) dodge the stick, followed by b) push the attacker down. A little too simple. I'm watching it thinking "no way a real attacker is going down like that." And in some of the others, he starts going down before he's even forced in that direction.
2. I understand why the law enforcement guy before was critical of the car-knife video. It seems unlikely that this would have a high rate of success. For starters, in the first demo of the video, the blade of the knife gets pushed into the underside of the defender's wrist. This is obviously very bad. The point being that when under controlled response from the attacker in a demonstration a cut is suffered, how reliable can this particular technique be under real circumstances? Notice that I'm only criticizing this 1 technique here.
3. The article about taking punches was pretty good, mainly the part at the bottom about breathing. This is important for any martial artist.
Systema is most likely a very good martial art. My comments should not be interpreted as an endictment of the art. Regardless of my impressions, I think these are good to show the general idea behind Sytema.
3 thoughts.
1. The attackers go down so easily that it lacks credibility as a demonstration. In the stick attack video, for example, much of the disarming technique can be simply boiled down to a) dodge the stick, followed by b) push the attacker down. A little too simple. I'm watching it thinking "no way a real attacker is going down like that." And in some of the others, he starts going down before he's even forced in that direction.
2. I understand why the law enforcement guy before was critical of the car-knife video. It seems unlikely that this would have a high rate of success. For starters, in the first demo of the video, the blade of the knife gets pushed into the underside of the defender's wrist. This is obviously very bad. The point being that when under controlled response from the attacker in a demonstration a cut is suffered, how reliable can this particular technique be under real circumstances? Notice that I'm only criticizing this 1 technique here.
3. The article about taking punches was pretty good, mainly the part at the bottom about breathing. This is important for any martial artist.
Systema is most likely a very good martial art. My comments should not be interpreted as an endictment of the art. Regardless of my impressions, I think these are good to show the general idea behind Sytema.
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Paul Genge
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I will try to address your points in order.
1) Though many styles rely on obvious locks or throws to put a person on the floor it is not the only way to acheive this goal. Try a simple experiment. Have as big a training partner stand with a straight spine. Put all your weight on their shoulders and see if they fall (They will not).
Next take the same person and twist their shoulders slightly so that their spine is no longer straight. You will be surprised how little distortion in the alignment of the spine you need for the next part of the exercise. Again apply presure down onto your partners shoulders (They will fall). Do this with as little presure as is effective. This way you will learn how to drop people with far less effort than is needed in throwing techniques.
There are other variations of this drill Where you have a partner take exagerated stances and you learn to identify the points of tension and support that these generate. by adding to or removing them is is easy to effect posture and cause it to collapse. With a little time the stances are brought back towards a natural position, making the drill more difficult.
2) There are several clips involving knife defence in cars. Which one are you refering to. I will then have a look at it. It has to be understood working against knives in vehicles is throught with many dangers. It is possible in desperate situations to lever a knife using the forearm on the flat of the blade. It might be that which is going on in the clip you refer to, but I will not know until I see it.
3) Thanks for the comments on taking strikes. There is an interesting clip at the end of the learning to punch article that has a Muay Thai and BJJ competitor learning what a strike can do and eventually how to dissipate it's effects using movement. This might be interesting to you because it shows the other side of this kind of work.
Paul Genge
1) Though many styles rely on obvious locks or throws to put a person on the floor it is not the only way to acheive this goal. Try a simple experiment. Have as big a training partner stand with a straight spine. Put all your weight on their shoulders and see if they fall (They will not).
Next take the same person and twist their shoulders slightly so that their spine is no longer straight. You will be surprised how little distortion in the alignment of the spine you need for the next part of the exercise. Again apply presure down onto your partners shoulders (They will fall). Do this with as little presure as is effective. This way you will learn how to drop people with far less effort than is needed in throwing techniques.
There are other variations of this drill Where you have a partner take exagerated stances and you learn to identify the points of tension and support that these generate. by adding to or removing them is is easy to effect posture and cause it to collapse. With a little time the stances are brought back towards a natural position, making the drill more difficult.
2) There are several clips involving knife defence in cars. Which one are you refering to. I will then have a look at it. It has to be understood working against knives in vehicles is throught with many dangers. It is possible in desperate situations to lever a knife using the forearm on the flat of the blade. It might be that which is going on in the clip you refer to, but I will not know until I see it.
3) Thanks for the comments on taking strikes. There is an interesting clip at the end of the learning to punch article that has a Muay Thai and BJJ competitor learning what a strike can do and eventually how to dissipate it's effects using movement. This might be interesting to you because it shows the other side of this kind of work.
Paul Genge
scottcatchot
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I enjoyed the video, and reading the comments.
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Very cool! I always liked to watch the systema techniques. When I first saw them back in the 90's, with a Vasiliev video set, It blew my mind. It was so unique.
Brandon Fisher
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The only techniques that scared me a bit were the gun techniques with your head so close to it and not really getting out of the way of the barrel. The one where you did not have control of the gun you may want to work that one a little different. I like the relaxed movement I to agree being relaxed in self defense helps you move quickly and smoothly like you need to.
Ross
Orange Belt
Brandon Fisher said:
Interesting videos Paul, thanks for putting them up. Inevitably it opens a whole can or worms right or wrong.
Anyway, I like them and have always been interested in Systema and it's principals.
Can I just ask - I believe it's more of a combatitive rather than an actual art with gradings, kata etc? I may be wrong though.
Also, I thought that there were a lot of stuff with the knife and gun attacks - why do you tilt your head into the gun? Maybe you dont but looked like it to me.
My instructor did a seminar on Systema a few years back and showed us some really interesting stuff from it.
I agree with what one of the guys earlier said about more aggressive attacks - just so that it provides us with a sense of realism (to the untrained eye lol)
For example, a full headlock from the rear, stabbing motion with a knife maybe, etc etc.
Thanks
Ross
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Paul Genge
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On the pistol clips it is essential that the body part the barrel is pressed on gets out of the line of the shot. If not things can get messy very quickley.
If you simply pull your head away from the weapon it can track your movement. When you move the head into the pistol the part of the head in the way of the muzzel gets out of the way and only a very small movement is needed to achieve this. The down side is that the head is next to the slide and you could get burnt by the muzzle flash or cut by the slide action. This is in no way perfect, but what is when faced with such a dangerous situation.
The problem unless there is visible resistance to the moves it will never appear full on enough to silence the critics, because of the way we work we do not oppose the tension given us by our partners and it works easier. This does not make any better a clip.
I will be trying to re-shoot clips for the video page in the near future and will take you observations into account when I do it.
Thanks,
Paul Genge
If you simply pull your head away from the weapon it can track your movement. When you move the head into the pistol the part of the head in the way of the muzzel gets out of the way and only a very small movement is needed to achieve this. The down side is that the head is next to the slide and you could get burnt by the muzzle flash or cut by the slide action. This is in no way perfect, but what is when faced with such a dangerous situation.
The problem unless there is visible resistance to the moves it will never appear full on enough to silence the critics, because of the way we work we do not oppose the tension given us by our partners and it works easier. This does not make any better a clip.
I will be trying to re-shoot clips for the video page in the near future and will take you observations into account when I do it.
Thanks,
Paul Genge
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Paul Genge
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Two new clips.
Systema real self defence in real environments.
Systema the questions answered. (Excert from a DVD I have been working on where an MMA fighter and street fighting authority tests out systema to find out what it is all about.)
Paul Genge
Systema real self defence in real environments.
Systema the questions answered. (Excert from a DVD I have been working on where an MMA fighter and street fighting authority tests out systema to find out what it is all about.)
Paul Genge
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Paul Genge
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Just an update to let you know my video page has been updated.
The clip of Systema the Questions answered is different from the one already posted on this thread. In it Richard Grannon talks about his experience of making the film and his impressions of Systema both before and after the experience.
Paul Genge
The clip of Systema the Questions answered is different from the one already posted on this thread. In it Richard Grannon talks about his experience of making the film and his impressions of Systema both before and after the experience.
Paul Genge
donald
Black Belt
Although watching the clips are nice. I thought the knife defenses were kinda impractical. At least the ones in the open air. The ones demonstrated against the buildings. Were better in my opinion because they demonstrated getting control of the weapon. Which I think would be of vital importance in a situation like that. Am I off base in this? Please understand that I mean no disrespect to this system, or the instructors in the clips. This is just my simple observation.
1stJohn1:9
1stJohn1:9
