System numbers...

[GouRonin]

Parker American Kenpo systems for the most part use a base of 154 techniques with extensions.

They use a limited number per belt. Some systems work 16 techs per belt until brown then it's 20 per 3 levels and 20 at black.

Some use 24 techs per belt then teach the extentions for the black material.

I have even seen people have half belts and make 10 techs per belt.

What system would you favour and why? Reasons can be financial or personal or social. Whatever.

 

[Rob_Broad]

I personally like the idea of 10 techniques for yellow belt and then 24 techniques per belt after that. The reason for such it allows for good stability and structure. This way the student starts into the extensions before black blet, therefore letting them see more of the style and what it is really about.

 

[GouRonin]

I like the 10/24 too but I can see how they would be moving towards the 10/16/20 as it would retain the students longer. The question is would they have gone to the half belts too like some people have done now? The half belts make it easier to see where people are in the system for larger schools I suppose and they offer more incentive to the student, longer retention and more $$$ for the school. But are they worth it? I think they can be IF the school uses them right.

:soapbox:

 

[jaybacca72]

i teach the 24 like the way i learned it and i think i turned out ok! to each his own the only problem is training with people on the other count and them saying i know brown belt when really they know the green material. i guess when in rome ,don't feed the lions? i stuck it out at my instructor's school for 14yrs so i don't think the technique numbers have anything to do with retention but it does have to do with the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
later yall
jay

 

[GouRonin]

Ah ha ha ha ha! "I turned out ok" he says! Ah ha ha ha ha! oooh...wait...this is going to be painful for me...
:boing2::hammer:

 

[Rob_Broad]

Jaybaca

Don't you usually end up naked and running around outside, when you drink rye. Ya... I guess thats ok.

 

[GouRonin]

Just curious, we discussed that the number system for the belts isn't really an issue for many people. However, there are systems that have taken the techniques and re-arranged them so that they do not appear in the same order.

I am of the personal opinion that they are in a specific order for a reason. However, that is not to say they could not be moved but what reasons would people have to move them? Would you or would you not? Thoughts?

 

[Rob_Broad]

I agree, the techniques are in that specific order for a reason. Some people sometimes re-arrange the order to make it easier for students, and more often for themselves. Some techniques at higher levels appear to easier than lower level techniques, usually because of the knowledge gained in the earlier technique.

 

[brianhunter]

In another thread Mr. Billings stated that it had to do with the web of knowledge and the 16 was set up to reflect that

 

[kenpo3631]

I learned the system in the 10/24 version. Many do not want to stray from the "old " ways of teaching the system. I guess what I am trying to say is, does it really matter what technique goes where if we as instructors completely know the system?

If you "know" the system and the relationships within the self defense techniques and you also know the whys AND how of the forms, you should be able to teach in any order.

Isn't the goal for the hardcore student of EPAK to learn the system to the point where you are pure sponteneity? If you can master the system...teaching is cake.

My though is this, Joe Blow from Cocamoe doesn't care what order the system is in, he just want to be able to defend himself.:asian:

 

[brianhunter]

good point! and I think you are right on the goals of kenpo!

 

[Goldendragon7]

But the techniques were originally arranged in their order for specific reasons. Someone who knows about the arrangement could do a "little" rearrangement but It is my belief that "most" that have done this have no clue to anything.

 

[Klondike93]

Have you tried to re-arrange the order any GD?

I know if you read Infinite vol 5 Mr. Parker tells why he laid them out that way. I think it's vol 5, is it, er no matter. You know start with dead attack (grab), semi - live (push) live (punch).
But what if you took the ones that are what if's or brother/sister, opposite/reverse techniques and taught them together? Does this make any sense?

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

I have lists upon lists of variables.......

right hand punch techniques
front grabs
read grabs
all clubs
all knives
all guns

but to rearrange the base curriculum is not really to be tampered with. It works as is...... Why fix something that works.

extra curricular arrangements are necessary for understanding!
:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

I see said the blind kenpo man, boy that's a bright light ya got there GD


:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

leads to a lot of understandings....... and is fun to boot.

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

leads to a lot of understandings....... and is fun to boot.

Would you recommend practicing them in order? I don't know
if they're all numbered the same among each belt or not.
At my school, for yellow, it's:

1) Delayed Sword
2) Alternating Mace
3) Sword Of Destruction
4) Deflecting Hammer
5) Captured Twigs
6) The Grasp Of Death
7) Checking The Storm
8) Mace Of Aggresion
9) Attacking Mace
10) Sword And Hammer
11) Intellectual Departure

Is this a common order? If so, then would you recommed that
when I workout at home, that I do them in this order?

 

[Goldendragon7]

And on both sides.

:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

And on both sides.

:asian:

So do you have your students do all the techniques from both sides or just the yellow? How come?

:asian:

 

[Seig]

I teach the 24 technique system. I went to half belts to keep the testing schedule on track. That was, as they used to call it in the corporate world, a business decision.