Superior Tangsoodo Student Successfully Defends Himself!

[Makalakumu]

Yesterday, a student at our dojang was attacked at work and was forced to use what he had learned in order to defend himself. I am posting this in order to show everyone an appropriate use of our skills in a self defense situation and as a pat on the back.

The background the situation is as follows...my student works for an oil change business and was busily at work yesterday. There were alot of people and the lines were getting long. Suddenly, a man enters the establishment and begins to cuss and swear out of frustration at the situation. My student attempted to calm the man down by holding his hands out and speaking in calm and measured tones.

The man continued to get more agitated and continued to escalate, though. My student was behind the counter at the time and man walked around the desk in order to stand face to face and continue screaming. My student again attempted to de-escalate the situation by using a calm voice and asking the man to please get back in front of the desk.

The man continued to escalate, though and drew back to strike my student. Seeing the blow coming, my student intercepted the strike, redirected it, and performed the arm bar that comes straight out of gi cho hyung ill bu. My student positioned the man over the counter in order to compromise his balance and immobilized the man until the police arrived.

The police commended my student on the usage of his skills, the appropriateness of his response, and quality of his training.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Makalakumu]

There are many things that we can discuss in regards to this...

1. My student's legally appropriate use of force.
2. The importance of training many different kinds of techniques.
3. The fact that this student is an average white belt at our school.

Look at your curriculum and what you learn and ask yourself how does your training prepare you for situations like this.

 

[Carol]

PROPS to you John, all around!!!!

 

[terryl965]

Upnorth great news, but let me ask this question how did his job re-act to what he done since they would be liable for aby lawsuite, if one comes around.
Terry

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm not sure. This only happened yesterday. I hope that nothing happens because he was able to restrain the person without injury, but who knows.

btw - my student is/was a member of MT...his handle is offdutyninja. I'll let him know that I started a thread about him and maybe he'll log into his account and post about his experience.

 

[Drac]

but let me ask this question how did his job re-act to what he done since

I was wondering the same thing..Too many places would have an employee stand there and be a punching bag... Outside of that tell him HE DID GREAT...

 

[stickarts]

Thanks for sharing this! I hope his employer supports him.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

this story is a credit to you and your student as well. Here's another hope raised that the employer does what's right too.

 

[kyosa]

sounds like a good use of force to me and i have some knowledge in this area. there are 5 elements in Minnesota that make up an assault and defending against an assault with force. they are:

1) you must have a reasonable belief that you are being assaulted or about to be assaulted.

2) proximity-they have to be close enough to be a threat

3) cant claim you are defending yourself if the force being used against you is lawfull force ie. a police officer using appropriate force in performing his/her job duties

4) the force you use must be appropriate to the situation and you cant use more force than is reasonably necessary

5) duty to retreat-in minnesota you have a duty to retreat if possible

if the story is correct when the person brings their hand back, especially in a fist, you have a reasonable belief that youre about to be attacked. when the person comes behind the desk and gets in your face he has proximity and you could constitute that as an assault. the force used didnt cause an injury and would be reasonable in most peoples eyes. with the individual behind the counter you dont have the ability to retreat, and being at work would make it difficult to retreat-where would you retreat to. you held the individual down until the police arrived-you would have a reasonable belief that if you let them up they would assault you again.

sounds like a good use of force to me and i have an interest in this since i am your instructors instructor. your actions as i read the story are morally and legally sound-you have a right to defend yourself from an assault and you did so without causing injury. the police and your employer should have no problem with your actions. as a 19+ year veteran law enforcement officer, a use of force instructor for my dept and a Tang Soo Do instructor i commend you, your instructor and your school in using force appropriately when necessary. TANG SOO!

Kyosa Dan Knoll

remember its good to be a good fighter, but better to be a good person

 

[Kensai]

Good lad, kudos all round. Bet he thinks all those dollars he spent on training were well worth it now eh?

 

[IMP]

Mr. K, which student is it? Tell me on Tuesday.

Ian

 

[Carol]

How did your student make out? I hope he is OK and got to keep his job?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Thanks for posting and I am very, very happy that your student was able to restrain the individual without either being harmed! Great job.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Novitiate]

This is a much needed post and a well deserved Kudos are in order for both Teacher and student.

This issues has been on my mind often as I am a bartender
in a town which at one point had more bars per capita then anywhere else in the US (Superior, WI)

As my instructor can attest I am loath to attack and prefer to retreat thanks to my watery disposition.

however recently while driving home from work I have seen several brawls down the strip and have set a date as to my retirement from the profession.
One of the incidents led to a local hockey player getting slashed in the wrists with a knife behind a bar a mile up the road. Being that we have recently covered this in our weapons class. I wonder as to the legality of the situation. This guy was jumped by two others in a back alley. Had he defended himself, would he be criminally libel? As my instructor advises...the best defense against a knife is a knife...but the first thing we learn is the five terrors. when cornered I certainly don’t want to have to make this decision...I want to run. I guess I am just ruminating on learning something I wish I didn’t have to learn.

Luckily I have a loyal cadre of regulars who are more then willing to resolve any issues that arise in "their" bar. However this is no insurance policy in a town filled with sexual predators and meth heads. Last year one of our regulars was murdered by a guy who forced his way into her apartment and used her sword collection on her. He wasn’t even looking for her, she just happened to be in the way. This incident sullied my view of humanity and solidified my resolve to move out of this area eventually.

I just hope eventually is soon enough

any words of wisdom or encouragement would be appreciated

 

[zDom]

Impressive, especially for a white belt! -- not only in the application of technique, but also in his maturity to successfully choose and apply a restraining technique instead of using it as an excuse to batter the aggressor.

Kudos!

 

[Makalakumu]

One of the incidents led to a local hockey player getting slashed in the wrists with a knife behind a bar a mile up the road. Being that we have recently covered this in our weapons class. I wonder as to the legality of the situation. This guy was jumped by two others in a back alley. Had he defended himself, would he be criminally libel? As my instructor advises...the best defense against a knife is a knife...but the first thing we learn is the five terrors. when cornered I certainly don’t want to have to make this decision...I want to run. I guess I am just ruminating on learning something I wish I didn’t have to learn.

This is the right attitude, IMHO, that one has to have when learning some of this stuff. The "Five Terrors" are not "cool" techniques. They are terrible and deadly. Using them against another human being should not be taken lightly.

With that being said, if someone attacks you with a weapon and you defend yourself with a weapon, you can expect to sit in jail for a time...until the police figure stuff out. Witnesses will be imporant and determining the aggressor will be paramount. In MN and WI you have a duty to retreat and this has to be demonstrated. You also have to demonstrate that the amount of force you used was appropriate.

Luckily I have a loyal cadre of regulars who are more then willing to resolve any issues that arise in "their" bar. However this is no insurance policy in a town filled with sexual predators and meth heads. Last year one of our regulars was murdered by a guy who forced his way into her apartment and used her sword collection on her. He wasn’t even looking for her, she just happened to be in the way. This incident sullied my view of humanity and solidified my resolve to move out of this area eventually.

When we are having fun in the dojang, it's easy to lose sight of one of the goals of our practice. This is why the effort you expend on this art is so important. You only get out of it what you put into it.

 

[MBuzzy]

Sir,

I have never heard the reference "The Five Terrors," please explain...

 

[Makalakumu]

These are knife techniques that have a high kill percentage. If done correctly, they will kill a man with one strike.