Strength or speed
- Thread starter ppko
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8253
Guest
I believe that you really must have both. Really the two compliment each other. A balance of speed and strength must be attained to be effective. One cannot take priority over the other.
M
Mark Weiser
Guest
From my study of Ed Parker System of Kenpo. He states in his books that accuracy and doing the technique slowly then you go for Speed.
Hwoarang_tkd26
Orange Belt
I agree, but I think that once you get your technique down and perfected, speed is probably what I would say is best (if I had to make a desision between the two.)8253 said:
I think that if you just have one or the other, your techniques will be inefective.
Thats why I think that it it best to have an even mix of both.
- Hwoarang_tkd26
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
well i personally dont think that either speed or strength mean anything if you are studying martial arts properly......morihei ueshiba in his later years needed neither strength nor speed and he was still a most formidable martial artist.
guru william de thouars has said that speed is >>REMOVED<<, timing is of the essence.
i think most any master of the arts that is up there in years would tell you the same thing.
shawn
guru william de thouars has said that speed is >>REMOVED<<, timing is of the essence.
i think most any master of the arts that is up there in years would tell you the same thing.
shawn
This is like saying, do you you need your leg or your foot never mind that it is attached. Speed without strength, timing, focus won't do the job. Strength without timing, speed, focus won't do the job. TW
punisher73
Senior Master
I remember an acronym I saw/read somewhere (don't know where so I can't give proper credit).
PAWS
Power=Accuracy, Wisdom, and Speed
The wisdom was defined as doing the right technique at the right time (along with distance and timing).
But, I think they are both a close equal. It doesn't matter if you can hit like a Mack truck but are so slow that your opponent always sees it coming and it doesn't matter if you are as fast as lightning and always hit your opponent if it feels like a fly.
PAWS
Power=Accuracy, Wisdom, and Speed
The wisdom was defined as doing the right technique at the right time (along with distance and timing).
But, I think they are both a close equal. It doesn't matter if you can hit like a Mack truck but are so slow that your opponent always sees it coming and it doesn't matter if you are as fast as lightning and always hit your opponent if it feels like a fly.
Eldritch Knight
Blue Belt
You can be the fastest, strongest person in the world, but you won't win if your opponent sees your strikes coming a mile away. Technique is the most important, followed closely by timing. Knowing when and where to hit is far more important than how hard you hit, or how fast. Of course, speed can open the realm of possibility by allowing you to get in more strikes, but this should generally flow from the mastery of technique.
SPEED AND TIMING ALONG WITH INNER STENGTH WILL WIN OUT THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME BUT NO-ONE CAN WIN THEM ALL. NOW LET BE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS QUESTION, IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE FIGHTER YOUR COMPETITION AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WILL COME FROM THE ENCOUNTER. SOME TIME WALKING AWAY IS THE BEST ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE THOSE THAT WALK AWAY WILL HAVE ENOUGH SPEED AND INNER STENGTH TO TRAIN ANOTHER DAY. IN TODAY WORLD ARE WE TALKING STREET OR TOURNAMENT. CONFUSING HUH JUST LIKE THE QUESTION. PLEASE PUT FORTH MORE INFO.,SO YOU CAN GET THE RIGHT RESPONSE...GOD BLESS AMERICA :erg:
I think this question is misguided. What you really need is adequate speed and adequate power (combined with the need to accuratley strike your target.) I've seen (and felt) people go for speed and lose all power. Quickness, mobilty and proper foot work and body mechanics can overwhelm a powerfull opponent, provided they are not to big and too powerful (then run). In the long run one needs a combination of just enough speed combined with just enoug power and adequate accuracy. No matter haw fast your arms are they lose power if they move faster than your core body. Great power in a slow bumbling practioner will be of limited advantage. Good speed and power mean less if you fail to strike effective targets.
I chose Power however since on some reflection I decided that I'd rather fight the young Bruce Lee than Bob Sapp.
Jeff :asian:
I chose Power however since on some reflection I decided that I'd rather fight the young Bruce Lee than Bob Sapp.
Jeff :asian:
punisher73
Senior Master
I see alot of posts that talk about speed vs. power. That wasn't the question, the question was is speed vs. STRENGTH more important in adding power.
DeLamar.J
3rd Black Belt
Speed is better, providing the technique is good also. I like the arrow analogy, an arrow is very light and fragile, a bowling ball is very hard and heavy. Drop the bowling ball on your stomach from a decent height. If you breath out and contract properly your ok. Then take the arrow, lighter, weaker, shoot it into somthing at high speed andf there you go, internal damage.ppko said:
I think that is one good way to explain it.
I personally don't think it's a clear cut case. You can be fast and weak,or strong and slow. Either way if your lacking precision,you might as well be doing the chicken dance,hoping one of your rapidly flapping wings will incapacitate your attacker.
Power(strength) comes from good,balanced delivery,which in time,will become "faster",but it is a mistake to sacrifice precision for speed or strength. I think I just said the same thing twice.:whip:
That's my 2c's. It's late.
Power(strength) comes from good,balanced delivery,which in time,will become "faster",but it is a mistake to sacrifice precision for speed or strength. I think I just said the same thing twice.:whip:
That's my 2c's. It's late.
kenpoworks
Purple Belt
For me, Accuracy comes first, then Regulated Speed coupled with Timing.
Strength, well define Strength.
Also I don't think it should be an "OR" question, but a "Vs" question.
Strength, well define Strength.
Also I don't think it should be an "OR" question, but a "Vs" question.
Alright guys I chose strength and I think it matters more than even technique sometimes. What is the use of speed when you can't even hurt the person? It won't help too much if you are up against a very strong man.
Think of this scenario. Who would win between a Olympic Gold Medalist Runner and a Olympic Gold Medalist Weightlifter? I can't even see the runner even fazing the weightlifter. Speed is hence defeated in this situation.
I had a friend in high school that was also really strong. I mean he was STRONG. He has never done any martial arts or wrestling his whole life. However, I knew that if he joined wrestling (since we didn't have a heavyweight wrestler) that it would be better for our team. It was his junior year in high school and of course he would have not done so well. However, I was wrong. He was undefeated until he got to state and he placed 8th which is damn hard for even someone who has wrestled for 5 years. Getting placed in a high school State wrestling competition is one of the hardest competitions, especially if you are in a state as competitive and populated as mine. Sometimes even harder than the nationals. I at this point had wrestled for a total of 11 years and I ONLY got a 7th at state (different weight class. That is good, but my friend got 8th at state in his first year by only "muscling his way through the season". It made my training for all those years in wrestling seem like nothing. In this scenario strength mattered even more than technique.
Finally, strength even matter more than speed/technique in the animal world. Cheetahs are VERY fast and have pretty good hunting technique. However, cheetahs are one of the weakest cats and are very lightly built for only speed rather than power. Hyenas often bully them and steal their kills. Hyenas aren't really that fast and they don't hunt that much (mostly scavengers) so they lack the famous neck biting technique every other cat has. Yet, they can easily take out a cheetah with its massive bite strength. In this scenario not only was speed defeated but technique as well.
I'm not saying technique and speed are useless against strength but what I am saying is technique and strength can only get you so far. I know martial arts teaches us that strength doesn't matter most of the time and we even see it in martial arts movies of scenes where kung fu master beat up multiple men much larger than himself. However, in reality it doesn't always work that way.
Oh and if a top heavyweight weightlifter was even a 1st degree black belt in a martial art, I would sugjest even Bruce Lee should run far and fast.
Think of this scenario. Who would win between a Olympic Gold Medalist Runner and a Olympic Gold Medalist Weightlifter? I can't even see the runner even fazing the weightlifter. Speed is hence defeated in this situation.
I had a friend in high school that was also really strong. I mean he was STRONG. He has never done any martial arts or wrestling his whole life. However, I knew that if he joined wrestling (since we didn't have a heavyweight wrestler) that it would be better for our team. It was his junior year in high school and of course he would have not done so well. However, I was wrong. He was undefeated until he got to state and he placed 8th which is damn hard for even someone who has wrestled for 5 years. Getting placed in a high school State wrestling competition is one of the hardest competitions, especially if you are in a state as competitive and populated as mine. Sometimes even harder than the nationals. I at this point had wrestled for a total of 11 years and I ONLY got a 7th at state (different weight class. That is good, but my friend got 8th at state in his first year by only "muscling his way through the season". It made my training for all those years in wrestling seem like nothing. In this scenario strength mattered even more than technique.
Finally, strength even matter more than speed/technique in the animal world. Cheetahs are VERY fast and have pretty good hunting technique. However, cheetahs are one of the weakest cats and are very lightly built for only speed rather than power. Hyenas often bully them and steal their kills. Hyenas aren't really that fast and they don't hunt that much (mostly scavengers) so they lack the famous neck biting technique every other cat has. Yet, they can easily take out a cheetah with its massive bite strength. In this scenario not only was speed defeated but technique as well.
I'm not saying technique and speed are useless against strength but what I am saying is technique and strength can only get you so far. I know martial arts teaches us that strength doesn't matter most of the time and we even see it in martial arts movies of scenes where kung fu master beat up multiple men much larger than himself. However, in reality it doesn't always work that way.
Oh and if a top heavyweight weightlifter was even a 1st degree black belt in a martial art, I would sugjest even Bruce Lee should run far and fast.
Eldritch Knight
Blue Belt
Kane, I think you misunderstand the point of the question. Comparing an Olympic runner and weightlifter doesn't concern the type of speed and strength that's relevant to the martial arts. Though you're right about cheetas being the weakest of the cats, keep in mind that animals are brawlers - they do not have the intelligence to develop and use martial arts. Martial arts require a good command of strategy and an intelligent mind.
Whereas a brawler would be content to simply whach away until his enemy falls, a martial artist uses concentrated, directed blows in order to attach specific weak points on his enemy. This is especially true at the higher levels of martial arts. One of the 5th dans in my system is a former NFL linebacker - big guy. His teacher, a short tai chi man, can mop the floor with him, no exceptions. There isn't even a question of strength - intenal arts specialize in redirecting power and using the strength of one's enemy against them.
The fact is, when you're comparing pure strength and speed with regard to building power, keep in mind that martial arts doesn't require an abnormally large amount of muscle power. The human body, as protected as it may seem, is a fragile thing, and can be easily shattered by a few well delivered, well thought out strikes. Considering this, one can deduce that strength, while important, is hardly as much of a decisive factor as speed.
Whereas a brawler would be content to simply whach away until his enemy falls, a martial artist uses concentrated, directed blows in order to attach specific weak points on his enemy. This is especially true at the higher levels of martial arts. One of the 5th dans in my system is a former NFL linebacker - big guy. His teacher, a short tai chi man, can mop the floor with him, no exceptions. There isn't even a question of strength - intenal arts specialize in redirecting power and using the strength of one's enemy against them.
The fact is, when you're comparing pure strength and speed with regard to building power, keep in mind that martial arts doesn't require an abnormally large amount of muscle power. The human body, as protected as it may seem, is a fragile thing, and can be easily shattered by a few well delivered, well thought out strikes. Considering this, one can deduce that strength, while important, is hardly as much of a decisive factor as speed.
GAB
3rd Black Belt
Hi.
My small contribution.
Speed against strength, strength against speed. Both persons of the same weight and size, speed has an advantage if you are scoring points.
If one does not have the strength to knock out or hurt the other, no mater how much speed that person has, they will win on points, but not on pain.
At some point in the contest, strength is going to win, if it is a fight to the finish.
I think you can see that in the Bernard Hopkins win over Oscar De La Hoya.
You see it happen all the time in Boxing Match's, where some one is moving up in weight and has not developed the strength of their opponent.
Equal speed and stronger, the stronger will win most of the time, if you are not counting tags. If it's a tag fight, speed keeps away, (boxer vs puncher) speed will win. 7 out of 10 times IMO. Look at Tyson vs Lewis...Strength won.
People who came to the fight will not like it, avoidance is the key, quicker, faster, speed, more endurance, etc.
Now on the reverse, more muscle, more oxegen consumption, lack of strength then comes into the play, exhaustion, boom, fall down, trip, weak, you are your own worst enemy. George Forman can tell you about being stronger and being beat when you run out of strength.
Lean and mean...
My thoughts.
Regards, Gary
My small contribution.
Speed against strength, strength against speed. Both persons of the same weight and size, speed has an advantage if you are scoring points.
If one does not have the strength to knock out or hurt the other, no mater how much speed that person has, they will win on points, but not on pain.
At some point in the contest, strength is going to win, if it is a fight to the finish.
I think you can see that in the Bernard Hopkins win over Oscar De La Hoya.
You see it happen all the time in Boxing Match's, where some one is moving up in weight and has not developed the strength of their opponent.
Equal speed and stronger, the stronger will win most of the time, if you are not counting tags. If it's a tag fight, speed keeps away, (boxer vs puncher) speed will win. 7 out of 10 times IMO. Look at Tyson vs Lewis...Strength won.
People who came to the fight will not like it, avoidance is the key, quicker, faster, speed, more endurance, etc.
Now on the reverse, more muscle, more oxegen consumption, lack of strength then comes into the play, exhaustion, boom, fall down, trip, weak, you are your own worst enemy. George Forman can tell you about being stronger and being beat when you run out of strength.
Lean and mean...
My thoughts.
Regards, Gary
