Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill

[Loki]

This topic has been covered before, but I feel the study is a better place for it than the computer room.

Do video games cause people to become violent?

Before you consider this, I'll enlighten you with something I read in "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker, both him and his book highly praised by all. What de Becker says is that violence is a process, not a single action. A person commits suicide and people ask why. "Oh, he was depressed over financial losses," they'll answer. But many people become depressed over financial losses and don't kill themselves. Can financial losses be the cause of suicide?

Similarly, when a kid who plays video games plentifully goes on a shooting spree and people blame the video games, doesn't the same logic apply? I've been playing video games since I was seven, shooters and fighting games being two of my favorite genres, and I never even considered killing anyone. I'm sure many people here play video games and never thought of killing a real human being.

Here is a excert (I think) from Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman:

In Paducah, Kentucky, Michael Carneal, a fourteen-year-old boy who stole a gun from a neighbor's house, brought it to school and fired eight shots at a student prayer group as they were breaking up. Prior to this event, he had never shot a real gun before. Of the eight shots he fired, he had eight hits on eight different kids. Five were head shots, the other three upper torso. The result was three dead, one paralyzed for life. The FBI says that the average, experienced, qualified law enforcement officer, in the average shootout, at an average range of seven yards, hits with less than one bullet in five. How does a child acquire such killing ability? What would lead him to go out and commit such a horrific act?

One of my shooter games racks up your stats and saves them on a profile. Seeing as my net play time is about two and a half days, I'd call it a fair evaluation of my skill in the game. While I score very high on killing and surviving, my accuracy is too good. And indeed, when I went into the army, my accuracy with an M-16 wasn't all that great either.

Suprisingly, this book is endorsed by de Becker's firm. Seems to me like a suspension of judgement to me.

Any thoughts?

 

[mantis]

you will probably hear more than enough about this topic
I want to add something to the video games that can contribute to violence.
"the media", which is continuous doses of hate targeted towards minorities, races, religions and ideologies.
examples: anti-semitic media from the 20's until recently.
American media talking about communism
Again American media offering doses of brain-washing material through weekly episodes, like the 24 show of Fox!
Religious institutions also promote violence, whether they are hindu, jewish, christian, or muslim or religions you probably havent even heard of (like sikhs of india)
what else promotes violence.. uh! imprisoning minorities inside "ghettoes" and providing them with only 3 things: drugs, liquor stores at every corner, and easy access to illegal arms.
I just wanted to add a broader perspective if people want to use it in this discussion.
thanks for the post though.

 

[MJS]

I don't think that its a game, music, or tv show that causes people to go on a spree. Instead, I'd have to say that there is something else wrong with the person that would cause them to do this. I've watched my share of horror movies and played my share of video games, and I've never had the thoughts or desire to slash someone with an ax or shoot someone with a gun.

IMO, parents don't want to take the blame for a problem that their child may have, so instead they blame it on a game or show.

Mike

 

[dubljay]

People are so hot to blame the media for excessive violence damaging our youth. Why is that? For god knows how long kids have been playing make believe games where they kill their companions. Before the time of TV and video games kids played (and some still do play these games) like 'cowboys and indians' or 'cops and robbers'. Most of the time these games involved killing your friends with a play gun. Yet how is it that these clearly violent games are not blamed for the corruption of the youth? In my not so humble opinion parents are so hot to blame the media anymore because the media has become a babysitter. With so many families requiring both parents to work parents spend less time with their children. Being tired from working, or just plain lazy in some cases, it is easier for a parent to sit their child down in front of the TV or computer and let them play video games. Because kids spend so much time watching TV and playing video games people automatically assume that the violent content is to blame. Violence always has, and always will be a part of our society, there is no escaping that. It is the lack of attention to our youth the quiet acquiescence of parents letting their children develop morals based on what they see (from watching TV and playing games) that is to blame for this increase in violence. You don't want your kid to be violent teach them that violence is wrong; don't expect the media to do it for you.


Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

-Joshua

 

[Martial Tucker]

Do video games cause people to become violent?


Any thoughts?

IMO, no.

I think it all comes down to parenting for the vast majority of kids who are not dealing with bi-polar, schizophrenia, or other clinical disorders.

While I'm a pretty strict parent (so I'm told) by local standards and I would not allow extremely violent games or even MTV in my house until my kids were in their mid-teens, my reasons were not because of fear of them corrupting my kids, but rather it was just a case of my feeling a need to set an example for my kids of what is, or is not in good taste.

When I was a kid, I stayed up late with my mom and watched horror movies, and played "army" in my back yard with neighborhood kids that were pretty violent, at least in our imaginations. But I also had a relationship with my parents such that we talked enough to give me a firm foundation in terms of what is and isn't real, and what is and isn't acceptable behavior. My parents were stricter than most, and we often disagreed, but I knew they loved me and cared about my welfare.

That's what too many of today's kids don't have that leads to violent outbursts, IMHO.

 

[Cryozombie]

This is nothing new... back in the days of "Pong" we blamed it on "Dungeons and Dragons" fer cryin out loud.

Its all about BLAME.

There will always be a source of that.

 

[Andrew Green]

No, they are a part of growing up.

The form might change, but violent game play has always been a part of growing up.

Whether it is running around the neighbourhood playing cops and robbers and shooting each other, blowing up little green army men, playing fantasy games like D&D or Magic, or shooting things on a computer screen, it has always been there.

The only difference I can see that might be changing things is that there is no guidance anymore. Video games are a instant babysitter, sit them in front of it and leave.

It's play, it's healthy and it is a part of development. Kid's need heros and need to pretend to be those heros. Video games are sadly the way things are, not just because of the makers and the kids, but because of the parents and the current trend of over protection.

How many of us grew up getting told to be back before dark and running wild in the parks and playgrounds? Parents rarely knew exactly where we where? How many kids do we see doing that today?

Parents won't let them, everything is structured, planned, supervised and in a closed environment. So, since other forms of play are cut off, what's left?

 

[Tgace]

Yep...I knew my parents raised me right because I never did anything (too) illegal...and I was smart enough to never have been caught.

 

[Solidman82]

Stop blaming a pastime and start with the most powerful people in the country starting wars. A controller is not in the same shape of a gun, nobody ever learned martial arts from playing Tekken. Althought I will admit, some of the war simulations out there are getting very realistic. I was watching my friend playing Socom 3 the other day and was blown away by theamount of detail they put into movement and the health guage(about 2 hits will take you down).

 

[Cryozombie]

Stop blaming a pastime and start with the most powerful people in the country starting wars.

Wait...

So...

President Bush is responsible for our kids being Violent too?

LOL. OMFG. It keeps gettin better and better.

 

[Solidman82]

well honestly, they're blaming entertainment and not realtime genocide? give me a break

 

[heretic888]

The actual evidence is much more complex than most here realize.

The truth of the matter is that the context in which children are introduced to violence greatly modifies the impact it will have on them:

- If the violence is realistic and detailed, it will tend to sensitize children to future violence. By contrast, 'cartoony' or unrealistic violence tends to give children ambiguous attitudes about violence.

- Potential repercussions to violence impact how a child will take in violence. If violent actions have severe and immediate repercussions in the medium, this will sensitize children to violence. By contrast, delayed repercussions or (even worse) no repercussions at all will desensitize children to the effect of violence.

- If a child is exposed to images of pain and anguish as a result of violence, this will tend to sensitize him or her to violence. By contrast, when violence is portrayed as not having a victim or without images of pain, children become desensitized.

- The role of the protaganist versus the antagonist commiting violent acts will impact a child's take on violence.

- Witnessing violence commited with weapons has been demonstrated to produce greater trends of aggression in children than 'unarmed' violence.

- Most importantly, the age at which a child is exposed to violence has a great impact on how he or she reacts to violence. Before the age of 6 or so, children have a greater difficulty separating reality and fantasy (re: imaginary companions) so this carries on into any witnesses of physical violence, as well.

And, while most of the research I have read concerning these phenomena apply to television violence, it can just as easily carry over to video games.

Laterz.

 

[heretic888]

Wait...

So...

President Bush is responsible for our kids being Violent too?

LOL. OMFG. It keeps gettin better and better.

Perhaps, Technopunk. At least to some degree.

There have been observed correlations between increases in violent crime rates as countries enter into wartime. Now, the actual causational direction can perhaps be attributed in any number of areas (perhaps its a third variable that causes both?), but the correlation itself is there.

Laterz.

 

[Cryozombie]

Perhaps, Technopunk. At least to some degree.

There have been observed correlations between increases in violent crime rates as countries enter into wartime. Now, the actual causational direction can perhaps be attributed in any number of areas (perhaps its a third variable that causes both?), but the correlation itself is there.

Laterz.

Increases in Violent crime commited by children? or in general? After all, WWI and WWII were never accused of making our Children into killers, were they?

 

[Cryozombie]

Although, come to think of it, I saw a propaganda film by the anti-gun crowd that came out just after WWII that said if you brought souvineer guns home from the war kids would kill with them, so maybe I am wrong.

I just get a kick out of how EVERYTHING in this country is Bushes fault.

Damn him for the Lack of Rain this year! Damn Him for my dogs fleas!

 

[Loki]

Heretic888, would this mean cartoons watched at a young age produce more violent adults?

 

[Martial Tucker]

Heretic888, would this mean cartoons watched at a young age produce more violent adults?

I grew up watching the 3 stooges beat the crap out of each other with hammers and saws and all kinds of stuff.....One of my favorite shows was "Combat!"

I guess I'm a walking "time bomb", because I haven't hurt anyone yet...

Again, I think kids exposed to such stuff with no parental involvement, communication, or supervision will be much more likely to act out the things they see. Statistics such as correlation can be interpreted in many ways when you seek to determine cause and effect, and it is easy to come to an invalid conclusion if you focus too much on the "trees" instead of the "forest".

 

[MJS]

It all comes down to the parents raising their kids properly. I grew up watching cartoons. I saw the roadrunner and coyote, with the coyote taking the 'beating' during the entire show, and it never inspired me to play with a stick of dynamite, jump off a cliff, etc., and think "Hey, if I jump off this cliff, the worst that'll happen to me will be a few birds flying over my head."

Mike

 

[JPR]

We are all influenced by what we watch, read, or play. As you mature, your ability to control those influences should increase (self discipline), but as a child that control may or may not be present. That is a risk of realistically violent video games.

I offer a small personal example. My son (11) was playing a game I had bought for myself (Call of Duty, 1st person WWII shooter type game, violent but not gory). He and I were having a wonderful time playing the game, discussing tactics, talking history and weapons etc. One afternoon his sister (9) comes running in the house crying because, "brother shot me with the BB gun". To sum up the long conversation I had with him, he was influenced by what he was doing in the game and didn't realize the consequences. I had taught him gun safety, had supervised him, and had come to the point that I trusted him (based upon his actions) to be safe, but he had been shooting people in the game, and that influence overrode his discipline and training. [An aside, in case you wonder, he lost his BB gun and was ban from playing the game for a month and has never shot his sister again.]

It all has impact on all of us, not just the children. Otherwise, why would companies spend billions of dollars on ads if they were not influential? Is it causal? I doubt that a violent video game causes someone to be violent and commit mass murder, but I have no doubt that it is influential. For someone that is struggling or going through life's different stresses without a lot of healthy support, that influence could be too much.

Does that mean they should be ban? I think that depends upon your personal outlook on governance. I think that parents should engage, play a larger role in knowing what their children are playing, and serve as a gate keeper to regulate the amount and type of games their children play. They should also be the voice of reality, helping a child to see the linkage of consequence and action. But that is hard work and many parents fail to spend the time and energy required. I don't think you can legislate anything that will make up for that deficiency.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

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