Something else that made me go hmmm

[Xue Sheng]

If we can issue power with strong force but don't know the techniques to attack and defend, we can never defeat the opponent no matter how strong the power we can issue. On the contrary, if we only know the techniques of attack and defense but do not know the method of power issuing, we cannot defeat the opponent either no matter now many times we are able to hit the opponent. These two techniques are complementary and should be learned simultaneously. – Adam Hsu

Internal and External together again, as it should be IMO. But then that just may be the Xingyiquan addict in me speaking… who knows

 

[seasoned]

Internal and External together again, as it should be IMO. But then that just may be the Xingyiquan addict in me speaking… who knows

And in mine also. One of our greatest boxers coined the phrase, "float like a butterfly and sting like a bee". I think that this floating and stinging can also be construed as hard and soft. Internal and External. All in all, I think it is a good addiction.

 

[Xue Sheng]

And in mine also. One of our greatest boxers coined the phrase, "float like a butterfly and sting like a bee". I think that this floating and stinging can also be construed as hard and soft. Internal and External. All in all, I think it is a good addiction.

Agreed.. and thanks

In Chinese martial arts there is great emphasis put on the artificial separation of Internal and external, for various reasons I will not get into here, and to be honest I do not think it is a healthy separation. Too much emphasis on external and neglect of Internal leads to an old ineffectual beat-up arthritic person to much emphasis on internal and neglect of external leads to old and healthy but ineffectual martial arts. Neither is actually as good as they could be if they would just relax, learn and use both as time goes on.

The approaches are not the same in the beginning but in the end they should end up in the same place.

An old CMA saying Internal goes to External and External goes to Internal

 

[Tensei85]

Agreed.. and thanks

In Chinese martial arts there is great emphasis put on the artificial separation of Internal and external, for various reasons I will not get into here, and to be honest I do not think it is a healthy separation. Too much emphasis on external and neglect of Internal leads to an old ineffectual beat-up arthritic person to much emphasis on internal and neglect of external leads to old and healthy but ineffectual martial arts. Neither is actually as good as they could be if they would just relax, learn and use both as time goes on.

The approaches are not the same in the beginning but in the end they should end up in the same place.

An old CMA saying Internal goes to External and External goes to Internal

Exactly!, or as my Sifu would say Yao Dai Jao Gong "Within softness there is hard" or vice versa.

 

[ggg214]

i do believe any style contains external part and internal part. this is what i learn in my taiji and xin yi liu he.

 

[mograph]

I think there is too much separation in the world in general.

As children, we see the world in black and white, but with maturity and experience, eventually begin to see it in shades of gray. However, this "black & white first" seems to continue into adulthood, where the first time we are presented with a new concept (such as martial arts), in order to understand it, we see it in terms of black and white. In that case, we'd want to know: is this art internal or external? Is it for fighting or health? Should I embrace it completely or reject it outright?

I can only assume that this attitude is propagated by teachers and promoters either because they never grew beyond a black & white understanding of their art or they pander to the masses (well, you gotta have students) by promoting the black & white understanding so the masses can understand. For example, if a prospective student asks "is your art internal or external?", and the teacher says "it's both", the student may not believe the teacher knows what he's talking about, or may think the teacher is lying just to get the student.

It may also be that, given that an art starts one way and ends up the other, making a distinction and naming an art "internal" or "external" best serves the students who only expect to proceed halfway through the art and stop when the emphasis changes. I think most people see themselves as "soft" or "hard", and when asked to approach the opposite, tend to balk. So they quit. Hmph. No wonder there are so few masters?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think there is too much separation in the world in general.

As children, we see the world in black and white, but with maturity and experience, eventually begin to see it in shades of gray. However, this "black & white first" seems to continue into adulthood, where the first time we are presented with a new concept (such as martial arts), in order to understand it, we see it in terms of black and white. In that case, we'd want to know: is this art internal or external? Is it for fighting or health? Should I embrace it completely or reject it outright?

I can only assume that this attitude is propagated by teachers and promoters either because they never grew beyond a black & white understanding of their art or they pander to the masses (well, you gotta have students) by promoting the black & white understanding so the masses can understand. For example, if a prospective student asks "is your art internal or external?", and the teacher says "it's both", the student may not believe the teacher knows what he's talking about, or may think the teacher is lying just to get the student.

It may also be that, given that an art starts one way and ends up the other, making a distinction and naming an art "internal" or "external" best serves the students who only expect to proceed halfway through the art and stop when the emphasis changes. I think most people see themselves as "soft" or "hard", and when asked to approach the opposite, tend to balk. So they quit. Hmph. No wonder there are so few masters?

Very true and this is also why I feel that after you get into an art, any art, research is necessary in order to first learn more about your chosen art and second find out if you are getting what it is suppose to be from the person claiming that they are teaching it to you.