Sia (or Zia...whatever it is)

DBZ

Orange Belt
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Ohio
So i have a pair of sia(the thing that the red ninja turtle has lol) that my wife bought me a while ago and i just pick em up and flip them around once in a while. Does anybody know of a book or website i could learn something from? forms mabey? My training in TKD does not cover any weapons except what to do if you get attacked with a knife. I would really love how to use them, I learned how to do the basics with my nunchacku from a book so im pretty sure i could learn this too
 

tellner

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,379
Reaction score
240
Location
Orygun
They're called "Sai" in Okinawa and Japan, Cabang in the Malay world. Many Okinawan Karate schools teach traditional weapons including the sai.
 
OP
DBZ

DBZ

Orange Belt
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Ohio
Sai, sorry i spelled it wrong. I want to learn more about them. the most I know is what movies has shown me. I would love to find a good book about them.
 

searcher

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
3,317
Reaction score
58
Location
Kansas
I am all for people trying to learn new things and I think some can learn some things from books and videos, but never try to learn a weapon on your own without an instructor right there with you. There is a very high risk of you doing serious damage to yourself and everything around you. Find the nearest Okinawan karate school to you and go there. Tell them what you are wanting to learn. They may not have a Kobudo instructor there, but they might. If they do not have one, go find a seminar that has sai instruction.

This will save you from hurting yourself.
 

MBuzzy

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
5,328
Reaction score
107
Location
West Melbourne, FL
DBZ,

I hate to tell you, but you will probably end up with a page worth of replied much like the ones you've already gotten. In the case of weapons, even Sai, which seem somewhat safe, your best bet is to always find an instructor. Just think if instead of going in to a TKD school to learn, you picked up a book....only add spinning metal. :)

There are probably a few good books out there, but learning a weapon from a book or DVD is in general not a good idea. Just saying this because there have been quite a few questions like this on MT and it usually ends up turning in to a debate on the pros and cons of distance learning. A Kobudo or Isshinryu school would be able to teach you sai. Actually, learning a weapon does quite a bit for the practice of your empty handed art. I'm in Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do as well as Haidong Gumdo (Korean sword) and the sword has made a big difference in my TSD.

An Amazon search shows a handful of book or DVDs, but of course, they won't get you anywhere close to what real instruction could....and there is the possibility that you can hurt yourself. Not saying that you are inept or anything. I say this from experience. Every man in the world thinks that if you give them a sword, they can handle it no problem....but I can't tell you how many times while learning I hit myself (with a mokgum) in various body parts learning sword. A live blade is of course quite different from a pair of sai....but the same idea applies.
 

Sandstorm

Green Belt
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
169
Reaction score
7
Location
Oxfordshire UK
I will just join in and add to the others' comments. Get a good instructor. Chances are, your learning from the Nunchaku book, wether it's Fumio Demura or Yamashita or whoever, they cannot possibly teach you the same way an instructor can. I didn't even start Bo staff until Brown Belt, so chances of you walking into a Dojo and asking to learn Sai and they accept, are minimal at best. A proper Kubodo school would be your best bet, though I don't know how easy it is to find one in your vicinity. If you really want to learn it, you'll find a way:)

Self instruction via books and dvd's = trouble and imperfection.

Good luck with your search and stay safe.

Regards
John
 

searcher

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
3,317
Reaction score
58
Location
Kansas
MBuzzy-I would almost say that sai is "somewhat" safe, until he chambers the sai and runs a yoku(prongs) into his abdomen or chest. I have seen this and it is not pretty. That along with various bruises and the occasional broken body part.
 
OP
DBZ

DBZ

Orange Belt
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Ohio
I will try to find a instructor but it may take a while. I know alot of TKD and TSD instuctors, I even know an akido and hopkido instructor. but I know ZERO japan or okinawa instructors. I find it funny that everybody that is not in a MA sees my uniform and says " do you take karate?!" and I always roll my eyes and say no but I would love to meet somebody that truly knows a form of karate lol
 

searcher

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
3,317
Reaction score
58
Location
Kansas
DBZ-where are you in Ohio? I will try to find you someone.
 
OP
DBZ

DBZ

Orange Belt
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Ohio
I am about one hour north of columbus, I live in the country the citys around me are mansfield, marion, mt. gilead, fredericktown. Im willing to drive to columbus.
 

arnisador

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
44,573
Reaction score
456
Location
Terre Haute, IN
MBuzzy-I would almost say that sai is "somewhat" safe, until he chambers the sai and runs a yoku(prongs) into his abdomen or chest. I have seen this and it is not pretty.

I knew someone who did this while chambering the sai (like chambering a punch, but you can no longer have the palm up in chambered position when holding the sai). It left a heck of a scar on her.
 

jarrod

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
2,172
Reaction score
96
Location
Denver
i'm going to be the voice of dissent here. assuming you have a good base in some form of martial arts, i.e., enough to know if something you're about to do is absolutely stupid or not, you can self train a weapon so long as your goal is just to flip them around from time to time like you said. if you expect true proficiency, you will need instruction of course. but it sounds like you just want to play around with some sai, like i suspect 90% percent of us on this forum did when we were kids.

speaking of which, from about ages 9-13 i "trained" with nunchaku, sai, tonfa, & assorted other "ninja weapons" & had absolutely zero MA experience or training. i didn't exactly master them, but i could spin them around. i still have all my fingers & i'm not sterile or anything.

jf
 
Last edited:

lklawson

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
5,036
Reaction score
1,680
Location
Huber Heights, OH
I am about one hour north of columbus, I live in the country the citys around me are mansfield, marion, mt. gilead, fredericktown. Im willing to drive to columbus.
You're not too far from Ken Pfrenger. He won't teach you sai, but he'd be glad to pile on some Irish Stick, Navaja, Sombo, or Carpathian Ax.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

jarrod

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
2,172
Reaction score
96
Location
Denver
man, i wish there was a good WMA group near me. i've visited/trained at a few & i dunno...can't i learn how to use an ax without playing d & d, or wearing funny clothes?

jf
 

Grenadier

Sr. Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
10,826
Reaction score
617
Find yourself a martial arts school that teaches sai as part of their kobudo training.

The school need not be an Okinawan Karate school, as there are quite a few Japanese Karate schools (Shotokan, Wado Ryu, etc) that teach one of the "big three" styles of kobudo (Matayoshi, Yamanni Ryu, Ryu Kyu).

Above all, though, get competent live instruction. When working with sai, it's very important to have good mechanics, as a bad set of mechanics can result in injury to one's self, and not just from hitting yourself with the metal sai. I've seen self-trained practitioners who end up with elbow injuries, forearm injuries, hand injuries, etc., from sheer wear and tear, due to their shoddy mechanics.

No matter how good a video may be, and no matter how correct, it cannot tell you if you are doing things right or wrong. Videos and books are good for enhancing the knowledge of one who already has knowledge of the weapon's use, but even then, no book can replace a competent instructor.

Yes, there are some amazingly talented people who were able to pick up a sai, receive a minimal amount of instruction with it, and become masters, but those people are the very rare exceptions to the rule.
 

MBuzzy

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
5,328
Reaction score
107
Location
West Melbourne, FL
Ok - perfect example here of why a DVD or Book doesn't work. I was testing in sword last night. One of our requirements is to put out candles with the sword (using a straight down cut, stopping at the wick). I was doing 5 candles last night. I have practiced this on my own and with other students many times, but it is only the 3rd or 4th time that I've done it with my instructor watching. I've always been able to do 1 or 2, but never 5. I did about 4 cuts with her watching with no luck. Then she said "Squeeze with your pinkies and try not to bounce back up after you stop." And the next cut, they all went out.

That is something that I NEVER would have known if she wasn't sitting there. I've watched it done a thousand times in DVDs, live, etc.....but you need an instructor to watch and see those little things and poof...it works. Weapons are funny like that.
 

lklawson

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
5,036
Reaction score
1,680
Location
Huber Heights, OH
man, i wish there was a good WMA group near me. i've visited/trained at a few
I had to start one. ;-)

There's a fella over on MyArmoury who's profile says he's from KC: Gary Venable

The Kansas City Fencing Association might be able to point you in the right direction or might have a few "closet HEMA/Historical-Fencing" members.

& i dunno...can't i learn how to use an ax without playing d & d, or wearing funny clothes?
Now that you mention it, there are a few folks in the SCA who are also interested in WMA/HEMA/Historical-Fencing. Might be a good place to look. You'll still find an assortment of SCA folks who just want to do the sCa thing but they're nice folks. I know one top name instructor who (along with his wife, also an instructor) is former SCA and another who still participates. I also know several practicing WMA students and a few "locally known" instructors who still participate in SCA.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Latest Discussions

Top