Seniors

[terryl965]

I have a few questions:

1) What constitute a senior for TKD?

2)Who decides if they are worthy enough to be a senior?

3)What criteria is there to say who is eligible to be a senior?

4) Finally who makes up the board to see who is and who is not a senior?

 

[puunui]

I have a few questions:

1) What constitute a senior for TKD?

2)Who decides if they are worthy enough to be a senior?

3)What criteria is there to say who is eligible to be a senior?

4) Finally who makes up the board to see who is and who is not a senior?

A senior is someone who starts before you. It has nothing to do with worthiness. The criteria is if they started before you. There is no board; generally everyone knows who and who is not their senior, and if you don't, then you are not a senior.

 

[terryl965]

Ok Puuniu you told Rush I believe that GM Kang was not consider a top senior? If what you say here is true than would he not be consider a top senior since he was he a long time?

 

[miguksaram]

A senior is someone who starts before you. It has nothing to do with worthiness. The criteria is if they started before you. There is no board; generally everyone knows who and who is not their senior, and if you don't, then you are not a senior.

With that said, I have a question, or scenario, however you want to choose it. I started in KKW TKD back in 1989 (prior to that I was in Shuri-ryu and Tangsoodo). Currently I am only certified as a 3rd Dan in KKW...different reasons for this. Anyway, would a person who started after me, but is of higher rank now, my senior?

 

[leadleg]

With that said, I have a question, or scenario, however you want to choose it. I started in KKW TKD back in 1989 (prior to that I was in Shuri-ryu and Tangsoodo). Currently I am only certified as a 3rd Dan in KKW...different reasons for this. Anyway, would a person who started after me, but is of higher rank now, my senior?

I have hkd students that have gone on to outrank me,they are my senior on paper but I don't defer to them when they visit and they definately don't treat me as their jr. I don't think there can be a cut and dried answer to that question. Some people used to say it was the mat that decided superiority but I mean exceptions apply there also,age and all.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Ok Puuniu you told Rush I believe that GM Kang was not consider a top senior? If what you say here is true than would he not be consider a top senior since he was he a long time?

I believe what Puuniu was referring to was that my KJN had those who were senior to him in the U.S., which is very true. I wasn't precise enough with my wording to convey that, sorry for the misunderstanding. My KJN is certainly a senior, and it seems every year through the passing of others, he becomes more and more senior. But there are still many that are more senior than my KJN. I know that my KJN started his training as a young child, and joined the ranks of the MDK in, I believe 1954. He doesn't like to talk much about what happened before he joined the MDK though, so I really don't know much about his past. But he came to the U.S. after being in the ROK Army (like so many of the black belts from the original kwans were) in the late 1960's.

 

[puunui]

I know that my KJN started his training as a young child, and joined the ranks of the MDK in, I believe 1954.

According to GM Kang Uk LEE's book, GM Kang and GM Kyong Won AHN joined the Moo Duk Kwan in 1964. GM Ahn (who I believe is your GM's best friend) told me that he first studied Taekwondo under a Kang Duk Won black belt, then went on to join the Moo Duk Kwan.

 

[puunui]

Ok Puuniu you told Rush I believe that GM Kang was not consider a top senior? If what you say here is true than would he not be consider a top senior since he was he a long time?

Not to tell you what to do, but if you read the question I was responding to, you would have known that I was responding to the claim that GM Kang was one of the top FIVE most senior Taekwondoin in the United States, which is incorrect, for the reasons I stated. GM Kang is a senior, but not in the top five in the United States.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

According to GM Kang Uk LEE's book, GM Kang and GM Kyong Won AHN joined the Moo Duk Kwan in 1964. GM Ahn (who I believe is your GM's best friend) told me that he first studied Taekwondo under a Kang Duk Won black belt, then went on to join the Moo Duk Kwan.

Yes, I mistyped, Kang Uk LEE's book is what I was referencing. Are you saying that KANG or AHN was Kang Duk Won prior to MDK? Since you seem very well informed, I wonder, do you know who Chang Bok LEE was? I know GM AHN has said that LEE was his teacher, but I could not find any literature on him.

 

[puunui]

I wonder, do you know who Chang Bok LEE was? I know GM AHN has said that LEE was his teacher, but I could not find any literature on him.

No, I never heard of GM LEE Chang Bok, but I can try and look it up. If I had to guess, I would say that is the person who got GM Ahn into the Moo Duk Kwan.

 

[puunui]

Are you saying that KANG or AHN was Kang Duk Won prior to MDK?

I'm telling you exactly what GM Ahn told me, which is that prior to joining the Moo Duk Kwan, he studied with a Kang Duk Won black belt. I think it was informal, at the person's house or outside of the dojang, and I don't believe GM Ahn received any Kang Duk Won rank.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I'm telling you exactly what GM Ahn told me, which is that prior to joining the Moo Duk Kwan, he studied with a Kang Duk Won black belt. I think it was informal, at the person's house or outside of the dojang, and I don't believe GM Ahn received any Kang Duk Won rank.

Please don't take offense to my questioning, I was just uncertain who you were referring to as "he." (Kang or Ahn). Although, now it seems clear you were referring to GM Ahn.

 

[puunui]

I was just uncertain who you were referring to as "he." (Kang or Ahn). Although, now it seems clear you were referring to GM Ahn.

I don't know if GM Kang studied with the Kang Duk Won black belt. I understand GM Kang used to live at GM Ahn's house when they were growing up, at least for a time, and that they joined the Moo Duk Kwan as the same time, 1964. In fact, I believe it was GM Ahn who told GM Kang to move to West Virginia because there were no instructors there at the time, and it was close enough to GM Ahn, who lived in the next state over.

 

[terryl965]

Not to tell you what to do, but if you read the question I was responding to, you would have known that I was responding to the claim that GM Kang was one of the top FIVE most senior Taekwondoin in the United States, which is incorrect, for the reasons I stated. GM Kang is a senior, but not in the top five in the United States.

Yea I got it.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I don't know if GM Kang studied with the Kang Duk Won black belt. I understand GM Kang used to live at GM Ahn's house when they were growing up, at least for a time, and that they joined the Moo Duk Kwan as the same time, 1964. In fact, I believe it was GM Ahn who told GM Kang to move to West Virginia because there were no instructors there at the time, and it was close enough to GM Ahn, who lived in the next state over.

Yes, it was GM Ahn that convinced GM Kang to move to WV, he told GM Kang that Huntington, WV (Marshall University) was a big city like Los Angeles. Man was he in for a surprise! Thank goodness for me that GM Ahn convinced him to move here though!

 

[ralphmcpherson]

It might just be a terminology thing but where I train anyone of a higher rank is your senior. So a white belt calls a yellow belt his senior or anyone who is of a higher rank.

 

[puunui]

It might just be a terminology thing but where I train anyone of a higher rank is your senior. So a white belt calls a yellow belt his senior or anyone who is of a higher rank.

In your school, how are seniors supposed to act towards their juniors? How about the other way around, how are juniors supposed to act towards their seniors?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

In your school, how are seniors supposed to act towards their juniors? How about the other way around, how are juniors supposed to act towards their seniors?

Seniors are expected to help their juniors however they can. If a white belt asked a yellow belt for advice the yellow belt would usually go up and introduce them to one of the black belts to help with their problem and most students would usually refrain from giving technical advice until about red belt. At gradings we usually get 50-100 black belts show up to sit up the front and a junior black belt will always stand and give a seat to a senior rather than have them stand. Seniors are also to set a good example, if two students are sitting and talking while someone demos a form then the senior will tell them to be quiet, if someone folds their arms in the dojang a senior will tell them not to etc.

 

[puunui]

Seniors are expected to help their juniors however they can. If a white belt asked a yellow belt for advice the yellow belt would usually go up and introduce them to one of the black belts to help with their problem and most students would usually refrain from giving technical advice until about red belt. At gradings we usually get 50-100 black belts show up to sit up the front and a junior black belt will always stand and give a seat to a senior rather than have them stand. Seniors are also to set a good example, if two students are sitting and talking while someone demos a form then the senior will tell them to be quiet, if someone folds their arms in the dojang a senior will tell them not to etc.

Ok. Now, are there rules and protocols about how one determines who is a senior if they are from a different Taekwondo school? Also, does your teacher explain how you are supposed to behave when interacting with a senior from another school? How does that dynamic work?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Ok. Now, are there rules and protocols about how one determines who is a senior if they are from a different Taekwondo school? Also, does your teacher explain how you are supposed to behave when interacting with a senior from another school? How does that dynamic work?

We have nothing to do with other schools as we are independent and therefore cant enter kukki competitions etc. To be honest, I dont know anything about protocol/behaviour when interacting with other schools because it has never happened. Within our school we bow when ever the GM enters the room but these days that is only at gradings because he is getting quite old and the chief instructor runs most things these days, although the GM took a black belt class last year and a thousand students showed up on short notice so we are hoping he will take some more in the near future. Other than that, we have the normal formalities within the club.