self defense and martail art longevity

[drummingman]

as i have been reading some of the threads here it has brought a very important question to my minid.that is,what is a style of self defese/martial art that is practical for real world survival that can be studied and practiced as a person gets older.meaning even into very old age such as the 80's and 90's? a style that will work on the ground as well as standing up.
i have seen a little bit of talk about people not being able to study harder styles as they get older and having to switch to a softer style such as tai chi.
another question i have is that with a lot of soft styles there seems to be a major focus on spiritual things that im not interested in.i say that because im a christian and i don't want to get involved in spiritual things that might conflict with my faith.i just don't want it to be an issue.
all that said i have been looking into studying japanese jujitsu and ed parkers american kenpo.how do these styles fair for a person as they age?
the thing is that i don't want to start a style right now at 30 years old that i will have to stop in the future because of getting old.
does anyone have any advice?
sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but i don't know where else that this thread would fit.
thanks

 

[MA-Caver]

as i have been reading some of the threads here it has brought a very important question to my minid.that is,what is a style of self defese/martial art that is practical for real world survival that can be studied and practiced as a person gets older.meaning even into very old age such as the 80's and 90's? a style that will work on the ground as well as standing up.
i have seen a little bit of talk about people not being able to study harder styles as they get older and having to switch to a softer style such as tai chi.
another question i have is that with a lot of soft styles there seems to be a major focus on spiritual things that im not interested in.i say that because im a christian and i don't want to get involved in spiritual things that might conflict with my faith.i just don't want it to be an issue.
all that said i have been looking into studying japanese jujitsu and ed parkers american kenpo.how do these styles fair for a person as they age?
the thing is that i don't want to start a style right now at 30 years old that i will have to stop in the future because of getting old.
does anyone have any advice?
sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but i don't know where else that this thread would fit.
thanks

Age really shouldn't be a factor if a person has dedicated themselves to a martial art (whatever style). Look at the founders of Aikido, Jujutsu, Judo and EPAK for starters (Parker wasn't as old but he was in his late 50's and going strong before he died... of a heart attack). Then look at Yip-man and his son Yip-sing, both were still practicing and teaching their art (Wing Chun) at an advanced age. I had the privalege to go hands on with Yip-sing on learning a particular techinque and I'll tell ya right now, at 80+ years old that is one guy I would not want to seriously mess with; there was nothing wrong with that man's speed or strength.
How well you keep yourself in shape and how well you avoid practices that'll bring on arthritis and other age wearing stuff (whatever!) will determine how long you can study that particular art. If you're young and go for a hard style, then stop for about 10-15 years then want to get back into MA... then it'll depend upon how you lived during that hiatus. Did nothing but a desk job 9-5 every day and the most strenuous activity on the weekend was mowing the yard with no other exercise ... then yeah you'd probably, MAYBE want to go to a softer art. But if you were the opposite or had a hard-physical job and went say Rock Climbing every other weekend and exercised reguarly then no reason is there for you NOT to get back into whatever hard-art you were doing before or a newer one.
You make the determination on how "old" or how weak you'll become in your advanced years. The saying is very true, you're as old/young as you feel. Taking care of yourself and your body throughout your life is tantamount to the rest of it (marriage/family/career and so on). I've known guys 70 years old that beat a bunch of 20-30 somethings on a 4 mile-1500 foot elevation gain hike. Simply because he took care of himself.
Again, it's not the art but the artist.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Age really shouldn't be a factor if a person has dedicated themselves to a martial art (whatever style). Look at the founders of Aikido, Jujutsu, Judo and EPAK for starters (Parker wasn't as old but he was in his late 50's and going strong before he died... in a plane accident). Then look at Yip-man and his son Yip-sing, both were still practicing and teaching their art (Wing Chun) at an advanced age. I had the privalege to go hands on with Yip-sing on learning a particular techinque and I'll tell ya right now, at 80+ years old that is one guy I would not want to seriously mess with; there was nothing wrong with that man's speed or strength.
How well you keep yourself in shape and how well you avoid practices that'll bring on arthritis and other age wearing stuff (whatever!) will determine how long you can study that particular art. If you're young and go for a hard style, then stop for about 10-15 years then want to get back into MA... then it'll depend upon how you lived during that hiatus. Did nothing but a desk job 9-5 every day and the most strenuous activity on the weekend was mowing the yard with no other exercise ... then yeah you'd probably, MAYBE want to go to a softer art. But if you were the opposite or had a hard-physical job and went say Rock Climbing every other weekend and exercised reguarly then no reason is there for you NOT to get back into whatever hard-art you were doing before or a newer one.
You make the determination on how "old" or how weak you'll become in your advanced years. The saying is very true, you're as old/young as you feel. Taking care of yourself and your body throughout your life is tantamount to the rest of it (marriage/family/career and so on). I've known guys 70 years old that beat a bunch of 20-30 somethings on a 4 mile-1500 foot elevation gain hike. Simply because he took care of himself.
Again, it's not the art but the artist.

So true, as you age in the art, your techniques require far, far less physical strength and speed than they did when you were younger. Good post, Ralph, but I must correct you on one thing - EGM Parker died of a heart attack and not a plane crash. Still, up to the moment of his death, he could have taken a dozen of me - even if "we" rushed him Mr. Smith style ("Matrix").

 

[MA-Caver]

So true, as you age in the art, your techniques require far, far less physical strength and speed than they did when you were younger. Good post, Ralph, but I must correct you on one thing - EGM Parker died of a heart attack and not a plane crash. Still, up to the moment of his death, he could have taken a dozen of me - even if "we" rushed him Mr. Smith style ("Matrix").

Thanks Jon, I stand corrected :asian: and edited... :uhyeah:

 

[JasonASmith]

My Sensei is in his 60's, and moves like a man in his 40's...We are definitely studying a "hard" style of Karate...
Wasn't Funakoshi in his 90's when he died? From what I've read, he was still going strong until the end...

 

[Mustafa]

Good point.
Considering me my physical training (which i neglect - That is the theory).

I have bad balance, so this forced me to adjust my style by lowering my body. Which by, i get more power of course, but it is going to end shortly.

That is better than nothing for me. Because otherwise i dont get anything. However, if i had better balance. I would not let go the later years. And just make sure i can attain the same level of skill if otherwise.

It is a "quick-path" i say if one does to lower ones body. But That can be compensated by alot of practise i say.

This conflict is present if you wish to train. Because you cant get it otherwise. As a matter of fact, the problem does not exist if you accept to go by the rules. To go by the rules i mean "The rules", not our rules.

 

[Drac]

Age really shouldn't be a factor if a person has dedicated themselves to a martial art (whatever style)

True..One just needs to look at O Sensei ,tossing guys around mats with ease at his advance age..

 

[Mustafa]

True..One just needs to look at O Sensei ,tossing guys around mats with ease at his advance age..

It is still a "quick-path", where the chances are less but not eliminated.
However, that does not mean "he hit the target by the first attempt". (Me personally, i still need to practise more in order.)

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have not witnessed a martial art that could not be practiced into your advanced years. However having said that you may have to modify your training as you age. Certainly as you get older you will not want to be the one getting thrown around as much.

Still you can defintely continue to practice. Some arts are easier on the body than others. Really what is most important to you is finding something that you like and want to do. Good luck.

 

[Drac]

It is still a "quick-path", where the chances are less but not eliminated

Please expand on your answer because you lost me

However, that does not mean "he hit the target by the first attempt".

ANYBODY who attempted to grab O Sensei got tossed REGARDLESS of size or age...

 

[Mustafa]

I have not witnessed a martial art that could not be practiced into your advanced years. However having said that you may have to modify your training as you age. Certainly as you get older you will not want to be the one getting thrown around as much.

Still you can defintely continue to practice. Some arts are easier on the body than others. Really what is most important to you is finding something that you like and want to do. Good luck.

Thanks. And you misunderstood me.

Given that i have bad balance.
I mean i will go with the first version, and will not change it if the the status of my balance remains the same.

But if that status changes ((anythign can happen during my current practise (Much practise compensates that i mean - which i dont currently have.))
I am thinking because i am still growing up, maybe my body is "rebuilding" my balance (then it wouldnt be a problem).
(And i understand that i will have to train all over again then, but that will not take a long time because of the previous experience, of the previous "adjustment")

 

[exile]

My Sensei is in his 60's, and moves like a man in his 40's...We are definitely studying a "hard" style of Karate...
Wasn't Funakoshi in his 90's when he died? From what I've read, he was still going strong until the end...

Jason's post is a good illustration of the possibilities... but there's a catch. When you talk about aging, you have to realize that this isn't something totally beyond your control. This is just my own take on things, based on my own experience, but it might be relevant...

I'm going to be 60 my next birthday, but I've done heavy weightlifting on a regular basis for the past ten years, dynamic stetching a la Kurz every day, balance exercises on a pretty much daily basis, interval aerobics a few times a week, and tend to go for the lower end of the calorie intake regime for my weight and height. The result is that I'm way stronger than I was in my twenties and probably better coordinated, though probably not quite as quick in a sprint. This feeds directly back into my TKD training, which is very hard-style (I wish it were a bit more flowing a la kenpo, but that's a different issue...) It was deliberate choice that I made in my late 40s, looking at other people my age who clearly were preparing to accept a much lower level of mobility and physical capability than they had enjoyed in their younger days just by virtue of being, well, young.

My point is just that it's not enough to shop around for a MA which is going to serve you well into old age. You have to do your part, and that means keeping your body as biologically efficient and powerful as possible. And that means working out a physical training program for yourself which may at times be a bit unpleasant. Because to in order to work, it has to challenge you physically enough to trigger the changes in your physiology that you want---more muscle, greater cardiovascular capacity, lower blood pressure, and so on---so you have to be willing to work in a zone of considerable discomfort at times. If you do that, though, you can---as previous posters have already pointed out---choose just about any MA that appeals to you and do it happily for a long, long time.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Thanks. And you misunderstood me.

Given that i have bad balance.
I mean i will go with the first version, and will not change it if the the status of my balance remains the same.

But if that status changes ((anythign can happen during my current practise (Much practise compensates that i mean - which i dont currently have.
I am thinking because i am still growing up, maybe my body is "rebuilding" my balance (then it wouldnt be a problem) ... Just a tought.

I was not addressing your response but the origional poster!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Jason's post is a good illustration of the possibilities... but there's a catch. When you talk about aging, you have to realize that this isn't something totally beyond your control. This is just my own take on things, based on my own experience, but it might be relevant...

I'm going to be 60 my next birthday, but I've done heavy weightlifting on a regular basis for the past ten years, dynamic stetching a la Kurz every day, balance exercises on a pretty much daily basis, interval aerobics a few times a week, and tend to go for the lower end of the calorie intake regime for my weight and height. The result is that I'm way stronger than I was in my twenties and probably better coordinated, though probably not quite as quick in a sprint. This feeds directly back into my TKD training, which is very hard-style (I wish it were a bit more flowing a la kenpo, but that's a different issue...) It was deliberate choice that I made in my late 40s, looking at other people my age who clearly were preparing to accept a much lower level of mobility and physical capability than they had enjoyed in their younger days just by virtue of being, well, young.

My point is just that it's not enough to shop around for a MA which is going to serve you well into old age. You have to do your part, and that means keeping your body as biologically efficient and powerful as possible. And that means working out a physical training program for yourself which may at times be a bit unpleasant. Because to in order to work, it has to challenge you physically enough to trigger the changes in your physiology that you want---more muscle, greater cardiovascular capacity, lower blood pressure, and so on---so you have to be willing to work in a zone of considerable discomfort at times. If you do that, though, you can---as previous posters have already pointed out---choose just about any MA that appeals to you and do it happily for a long, long time.

Nice post!

 

[Mustafa]

Please expand on your answer because you lost me

I mean it is not either sensei, or not sensei.
There there are different levels like belts.

ANYBODY who attempted to grab O Sensei got tossed REGARDLESS of size or age...

Sensei = dojo
So, he is supposed to because they are students.
If he goes outside the dojo, who know what he will encounter?
The thing is, one cannot make one rules for all the senseis.
Because then the fools of them would mess it up, while the higher ranks pays the consequences. (this perspective)

 

[Mustafa]

I was not addressing your response but the origional poster!

Right sorry.
But are we sniping now?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

How could you consider that a snipe? You addressed me and I told you that I was addressing the origional poster of the thread.

 

[Mustafa]

About me bad balance.
I have bad balance because of medical reasons. And that makes most of the other things difficult for me. It is like 1kg for you, is 10kg for me.

 

[exile]

Right sorry.
But are we sniping now?

Mustafa---reread what Bob wrote about sniping in the new infractions thread. Has anyone on the thread we're in now said anything to you that corresonds to a personal knock? Brian was simply clarifying what he was doing. I'm curious to know exactly why you think that this would qualify as sniping.

 

[Mustafa]

How could you consider that a snipe? You addressed me and I told you that I was addressing the origional poster of the thread.

Because you dont have to tell me that you are not sniping.
You have to show me that you are not sniping.

As a matter of fact, it is a strange thing if this thread cannot be called sniping. (like me other posts was considered sniping?)