Sanchin Kata - Conditioning and Applications - Video

[Makalakumu]

I found this bumming around on youtube.

This video is of the Okinawan Uechi Ryu. In particular, Sanchin Kata is being highlighted. Notice the emphasis they place on conditioning and strength. Also notice the lack of Uechi Ryu McDojos...

What do you think?

 

[cstanley]

You don't find that many McDojo in Okinawan karate because if it is taught properly it keeps the non-serious students away. It is too difficult, takes too long to get rank, and the dojo atmosphere is not conducive to baby sitting and family hour. Uechi ryu is a fine ryu and turns out many quality students.

 

[Makalakumu]

If they can take that kind of punishment on a regular basis, getting smacked by an attacker should be no problem. Also, I can see how all of that body hardening would really increase your power in general.

I wonder about the extended effects on your body though? Could a student of Uechi Ryu, who is regularly beat on, develop some long term health problems?

 

[cstanley]

You know, that has been discussed. In Mark Bishop's book on Okinawan Karate some of the old guys have reservations about the forced heavy breathing. But, that is only one method of breathing and some Goju don't do it at all. In Shito ryu, the Goju kata are done but generally without the ibuki type breathing. I asked a physician friend of mine to watch me do it and he did not like it. He said, "Well, it at least raises the hell out of your blood pressure." I don't practice that way because the Goju guys I met said that most Goju seniors don't do it, either, except as conditioning drills sometime. I think the breathing is worse for you than controlled contact.

 

[Makalakumu]

I've heard the same about Iron Shirt breathing. One of my tai chi teachers claimed that practicing Iron Shirt would take 10 years off your life.

 

[twendkata71]

I have trained in the sanchin kata. Doing the Goju ryu version. It has its benifits. The master in the video was in his eighties. So, perhaps it is not as detrimental to the body as some may believe. It does your core strength. As well as being able to take blows in combat. performing the kata for me is exhausting. It is difficult to keep all of the muscles tense throughout the whole kata. To the observer it looks like a very short kata,but by the end you are worn. All things in moderation is what I would advise. And if you do Sanchin, practice it under the watchful eye of a qualified sensei.

 

[Sensei Tom O'Brien]

Sanchin is a tension kata. It is sometimes accompanied by a high pitched whooshing sound as the practitioner breathes out. Breathing is emphasized even more in this kata. All the muscles are tensed throughout the entire kata. Usually the Sensei or other students hit & push on the performer to test the strength of stance, punch & or blocks. I used to watch Sensei Peter Urban's students perform it together. Characteristics are both hands up in mid-block position & the hourglass or pigeon toe stance or migi sanchin dachi. You punch slowly and really tense all your muscles as you do so. The kata ends in double open hand attacks to the face & groin simultaneously. It is said if you do Sanchin 3X a day you will live a long life. The practitioners do become ’ripped’ doing this dynamic tension. There are volumes on-line just pertaining to Sanchin. I also agree about the 'McDojo' situation watering down the arts. I refuse to water it down just to make it easier much to my own detriment as far as enrollment goes. I am not even as extreme as the Sensei on the video. I lose students all the time. I have a small, humble, garage dojo called the Ronin Martial Arts Club in upstate NY. I would still rather have quality rather than quantity. We can compete with any of the big schools. I don't care if I loose students because it is too hard. I have no overhead. I am not in this for the money. I do this because I love it pure & simple. Thanks for the video & I hope everyone has a great year.
Thanks,
Sensei Tom

 

[shotokan-kez]

Wow, that looked scary. I do like the kata, and i like the style. But to be honest i wouldn't like to be beat on like that while performing a kata. There is no way that i can harden my body like that. I find it hard enough to get my breathing right in Hangetsu. lol

 

[cstanley]

Sanchin is a tension kata. It is sometimes accompanied by a high pitched whooshing sound as the practitioner breathes out. Breathing is emphasized even more in this kata. All the muscles are tensed throughout the entire kata. Usually the Sensei or other students hit & push on the performer to test the strength of stance, punch & or blocks. I used to watch Sensei Peter Urban's students perform it together. Characteristics are both hands up in mid-block position & the hourglass or pigeon toe stance or migi sanchin dachi. You punch slowly and really tense all your muscles as you do so. The kata ends in double open hand attacks to the face & groin simultaneously. It is said if you do Sanchin 3X a day you will live a long life. The practitioners do become ’ripped’ doing this dynamic tension. There are volumes on-line just pertaining to Sanchin. I also agree about the 'McDojo' situation watering down the arts. I refuse to water it down just to make it easier much to my own detriment as far as enrollment goes. I am not even as extreme as the Sensei on the video. I lose students all the time. I have a small, humble, garage dojo called the Ronin Martial Arts Club in upstate NY. I would still rather have quality rather than quantity. We can compete with any of the big schools. I don't care if I loose students because it is too hard. I have no overhead. I am not in this for the money. I do this because I love it pure & simple. Thanks for the video & I hope everyone has a great year.
Thanks,
Sensei Tom

All your muscles are not tensed throughout the entire kata. There are sanchin dachi with each foot forward (not just migi) and feet parallel, there are 3 distinct methods of breathing in Sanchin (one is very light and hardly audible), there are several versions of Sanchin from different traditional ryu. They do not all end the same way.
I would not choose Peter Urban's group as the best representation of Sanchin.
People who insist how humble they are usually aren't.

 

[Sensei Tom O'Brien]

cs,

Thanks for the clarification. There are hundreds of ways to do Sanchin. You are probably right about Master Urban's not being the best though.

Oosh'
Sensei Tom

 

[chinto01]

Thanks for the great link to the video. We practice sanchin kata however we do not hit eachother as hard as was in the video. We practice with resistance that a partner gives us but nothing to the extent in the video.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Wow, that looked scary. I do like the kata, and i like the style. But to be honest i wouldn't like to be beat on like that while performing a kata. There is no way that i can harden my body like that. I find it hard enough to get my breathing right in Hangetsu. lol

We do that type of practice with hangetsu sometimes and its effective in body conditioning and helping your breathing.

 

[Robert Lee]

Sanchin Kata. if not understood takes years to truely understand. If you look at sanchin. OR tensho. They teach you the proper breathing. proper body tension during a strike or block. Some call it walking zen meditation. It can both help the body and well hidden in the katas is the key to proper application of karate. It is over done to demonstate application of power and ki. In Go ju ryu. You would be taught sanchin at near or at green belt level. And the testing strikes to body ,neck, midsection legs even groin would become harder as you advance. Proper sanchin stance is tested by a front kick to the groin if you are in a good stance the kick will not be able to strike up to the groin. IF not well you get a hard kick there. I have seen peoplke that failed a time or to and it is rather painful Getting a full power kick to the groin. It is said some will spend a life time doing sanchin but never understand its training.

 

[chinto01]

I think I will pass on the shot to the yam bag fellas!

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[keri-waza]

That's a pretty hard core video. We practice Sanchin for tension and breath control. Helps to expel the air when taking a shot . We do the Isshinryu variation of this.

 

[uechidrew]

The people on this video are Kiyohide Shinjo and his brother Narahiro Shinjo. Sensei Shinjo is the head of our orginazation Uechi-Ryu Kenyukai. My Sensei's Sensei is Kiyohide Shinjo. I have been fortunate to train under both of these individuals a number of times, they are the benchmark we strive for. The beauty of Uechi-ryu is in the seemingly simplicity of the system. It is not for everyone, especialy if you do not like getting hit or having your conditioning tested. If you are interested in learning Uechi-ryu make sure to watch a few class and judje if it is for you, also not every orginazation trains in the same manor. Many have moved away from the body conditioning aspect presumably because there were too many injuries and they have lost the stomach for it. IMO the conditioning is what makes Uechi-ryu Uechi-ryu. If you have any questions related to the system I will do my best to answer them.

On a side note I have been training Uechi-Ryu fo rthe last 7 years. I earned my shodan in 2004 and tested in front of Kiyohide Shinjo.

 

[tellner]

I did Uechi Ryu many years ago with Gorman-Sensei when he lived in New England. Great stuff. Simple, close range, powerful.

The only problem came years later. I had been doing Silat for about a year with Guru Bollers. Brandt wanted to see what I'd done before, so I showed him including Sanchin. I'd learned it back when they did the reverse Power breathing - hold the breath on the thrust, exhale on the retraction. He said "Toad, stop that! You'll give yourself a stroke and your guts will shoot out your ***!"

Later on I looked up Gorman Sensei and asked if they still breathed that way. He said "Not anymore. People were getting strokes and hemmeroids when they got older." :mst:

 

[Hand Sword]

Awesome Video! Great stuff!

 

[thepanjr]

Thank for the video. It was awesome, it made me want to train my sanchin kata so much, knowing the actual benfits it distributes with intense training. Sanchin is the most hardest kata now it way cooler because of that video.

 

[undeadcheese]

Wow, that looked scary. I do like the kata, and i like the style. But to be honest i wouldn't like to be beat on like that while performing a kata. There is no way that i can harden my body like that. I find it hard enough to get my breathing right in Hangetsu. lol

Remember that many uechi schools only practice shimi to the ability of the practitioners. So someone who has been practicing for 20+ years looks very tough as well as scary when practicing, however that is the comfortable level of conditioning for them. Someone who is just beginning recieves something a bit different.