San Ti Shi

[DaPoets]

I have begun my San ti practice. I'm begining with 10 minutes a day for the next 30 days. I found that after about 8 minutes or so I really started to "get it" I guess for lack of a better phrase. I'm hoping that I hit that point after a couple minutes after doing this for a month. Then I'll increse it to either 15 or 20 minutes at a time. I was told that this should be a good pace to correctly experience this and begin to understand it.

Thoughts?

 

[DavidCC]

my experience is similar - it takes a few minutes to "settle in" to it, get all the parts in place...

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have begun my San ti practice. I'm begining with 10 minutes a day for the next 30 days. I found that after about 8 minutes or so I really started to "get it" I guess for lack of a better phrase. I'm hoping that I hit that point after a couple minutes after doing this for a month. Then I'll increse it to either 15 or 20 minutes at a time. I was told that this should be a good pace to correctly experience this and begin to understand it.

Thoughts?

Don't rush Santi.

10 minutes means what? total or per side?

my experience is similar - it takes a few minutes to "settle in" to it, get all the parts in place...

Agreed

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Now that you started practicing Santi you will notice when you practice the form how much more it make sense. You will see even more clearly how Peng works.

Santi should not be rushed I recall when I was doing Santi and my teacher was fixing my posture and making me sink and my back leg felt like hot lava moving and I jumped out of Santi.

You should do Santi on both sides careful not to over do it is demanding.

 

[DaPoets]

Yes I am just doing 10 minutes per side. I don't want to rush anything just as stated. I guess I should have been more clear initially.

 

[East Winds]

DaPoets,

If you can do Santi for 10 minutes each side after this short time, then I suggest you are doing it incorrectly.If you have not experienced (as JadecloudAlchemist describes it) - hot lava moving and jumping out of Santi, then you are definitely not doing it correctly. Who is supervising your practise and stances? Correct Santi, as others have said, cannot be rushed. Its not like the TTCS set which can be "learned" in 12 weeks. Correct Santi training can take years to reach 20 minutes each side. I thought I was doing really good Santi until Grandmaster Yu Yong Nian made a very minor tweak to my posture, and I got the hot lava and jumping experience. You need a teacher. I suggest there is no one in the TTCS who has that experience. The answer is to visit a real Hsing-I school and try it out. But then of course, the TTCS will not allow you to do that, will they?

Very best wishes

 

[pete]

hey Dapoets... keep the faith.

difference with Xingyi, as opposed to Tai Chi, is the initial precision required to make the standing posture 'work'. With Tai Chi you can grow into all those adjustments as you develop in the art, but with Xingyi it is taught to be precise from the start.

i won't cast doubt into the quality of your instructor as others from half way cross the world seem to be relentless... if it works for you, then keep it going. if it's not working, or you begin to stagnate, question or move on.

one thing for sure is depending on your nature and psychic make-up, a lot of xingyi early on can be addictive and put a nasty edge on you. its probably a good idea to keep your santi shi in moderation and balance it with some tai chi or bagua. again, this really depends on the individual.

pete.

 

[DaPoets]

Everyday I practice my tai chi, lok hup ba fa, xing-yi and most days my tai chi sword and saber. This all keeps me balanced nicely.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes I am just doing 10 minutes per side. I don't want to rush anything just as stated. I guess I should have been more clear initially.

Are you standing in a posture similar to these?

http://wushu.one.pl/grafika/artykuly/santishi2.jpg

http://www.emptyflower.com/xingyiquan/

Feet about 2.5 to 3 feet apart

Weight distribution 60 rear leg /40 front leg

If you drew a line from your back foot to your front foot the line would be at the heel of the back foot and the big toe of the front foot. Your front foot is turned in slightly. And your body is turned slightly as well

On the same side that is the back foot that hand is at the navel the side that is the front foot that hand is in front of you fingers slightly apart thumb a bit further forming what is referred to as the tiger’s mouth. The index finger of this hand is directly in front of your nose and you are focused on that finger but you are sinking your Qi to the Dantian.

 

[DaPoets]

Yes the general basis for the posture is similar to one of the xing-yi exercises that we do. It is getting used to the 60/40 weight balance and holding it. sinking Qi to the Dantian is something I have been working on for many years now. I am also slightly curling my toes, as if gripping the ground with my feet.

 

[East Winds]

Pete,

"i won't cast doubt into the quality of your instructor as others from half way cross the world seem to be relentless..."

The difference is, that, (unlike you) some of us from "half way cross the world" have a few years experience of TTCS and therefore know what we are talking about.

Anyway thanks for your continued input.

 

[pete]

basically you have an opinion within a general context. it may be an informed opinion, but opinion nonetheless.

i enjoy a nice cold beer every so often, really enjoy a guinness and have little use for budweiser. that is my opinion. so i enjoy my guinness, or an occasional sam adams. let all those who drink buds continue to drink their buds if that is what they like. it IS all beer, and their choice is no threat to my opinion.

Dapoets seems to be sincere and dedicated in his practice. we can all share our experiences without getting overly preachy or condescending. that is not what Tai Chi is about. that is not what this forum is about.

pete.

 

[East Winds]

Pete,

Thanks for your valuable input. Some of us consider it is important to teach correct Chinese Internal Martial Arts. i.e. arts with a martial content. If you wish to teach otherwise or support those who do, then you are contributing to the destruction of these arts. And of course you are correct. I am contributing from the basis of informed opinion which I find is always a more accurate form of debate. By the way, you really need to find out the difference between opinion and taste. And I’m still waiting for you to tell me which form of Taiji you teach. Your website (like you) is surprisingly silent on the matter. But then perhaps you think it doesn’t matter so long as you call it Tai Chi.

Very best wishes

 

[pete]

East Winds,

i am glad you find value in my input, and hope that your practice and sincerity towards the art will continue to mature as a result.

nobody, not you nor i, have exclusivity to what we all share as Tai Chi, or Martial Arts for that matter. What we do have is our experience, our vision, and yes our opinions on how best to practice, grow, and share what we do.

as for me, what i do and from whom i've learned, is quite clear and available for yourself to read, or anyone interested in taking classes.

Bury west fishes,

Pete

 

[East Winds]

DaPoets,

"sinking Qi to the Dantian is something I have been working on for many years now".

This is of course the mainstay of Traditional Yang Family Taijiquan training for the issue of fajing within the form. I was not aware that the TTCS taught this process. Can you give us some indication of the training processes involved please?

Very best wishes

 

[DaPoets]

I finished my 1st book on xing-yi and surprisingly it clearly states that there are two roads for practicing xing-yi. One is for the combat art, and the other is the Taoist healing art for longevity. Neither is greater than the other as it is the practitioner's goal and intent of the mind and body that makes the difference.

I think there is no confusion as to why I practice the internal martial arts that I do. I'm not one for combat even though I have gone that route in the past. I am one of longevity, youthfulness, and cultivating shen. Cultivating Shen is my primary focus and TTCS has done a great deal for me over the years in acheiving this. Liuhebafa, xing-yi, taijidao, taijijian, taijiquan, are all tools to help acheive this. San Ti Shi is another tool to help me improve my xing-yi and thus was the purpose of this thread. Pete I great appreciate your thoughts and comments and I equally appreciate East Winds as well as he helps me keep my eyes open. His experience in TTCS is vastly different than mine as he is accross the pond and I would get a call from Master Moy to just go have dinner...

TTCS didn't touch on San Ti Shi much at all BUT there are those in TTCS that have gone fairly deep into xing-yi and luckly due to my proximity to T.O. I have the luxury to go deeper in my training that just a week long workshop.

I appreciate all of the comments and thoughts,

DaPoets

 

[DaPoets]

DaPoets,

"sinking Qi to the Dantian is something I have been working on for many years now".

This is of course the mainstay of Traditional Yang Family Taijiquan training for the issue of fajing within the form. I was not aware that the TTCS taught this process. Can you give us some indication of the training processes involved please?

Very best wishes

I began my training in this while in college just before I became introduced to the TTCS. long story short, the Chinese teachers at my university were deep into tai chi and qi gong and taught me a good deal.
As for TTCS, it is not formalized instruction as not everyone would understand it because it is easier to understand when your body/mind is going through the changes needed to truly feel and grasp this. The easiest way I can explain the TTCS teachings of this are during open practice with very senior instructors. Here you will learn a great deal more on this as well as healing qi gong application if you are at that level. Most that become aware of this need to practice cultivation for many years before even attempting any form of healing qi gong.

Again this is from my experience of what I am seeing and experiencing. This is something you would not see accross the pond.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I finished my 1st book on xing-yi and surprisingly it clearly states that there are two roads for practicing xing-yi. One is for the combat art, and the other is the Taoist healing art for longevity. Neither is greater than the other as it is the practitioner's goal and intent of the mind and body that makes the difference.

I am not disputing this and in fact I agree but Xingyiquan was a Chinese Military style and is considered an old Chinese Military martial art which was most certainly for fighting.

I am of the opinion that it you seperate the 2 or emphasize one over the other you only get half the picture and half the benefit.

 

[East Winds]

DaPoets,

Clearly we mean different things when we talk about sinking the chi to the dantien. In Traditional Yang we do this by applying Yang Cheng-fu’s 10 essences during our form practise. The first 5 essences are external and cumulative whilst the second 5 essences are internal. Try applying the first five essences the next time you do your form. They are:

• Lift the head – raise the spirit
• Sink the shoulders and elbows
• Loosen the chest and round the back
• Loosen the waist and open the Kua
• Differentiate between the substantial and insubstantial. (be aware of how the weight changes in the legs).

Remember they are cumulative. You cannot have essence two until; you are doing essence one and you cannot be doing essence 3 until you are doing essence 1 and 2 and so on. This is not an easy process, but is the whole and simple secret of Yang Family Taijiquan. Remember the saying “There are no secrets” – Yang Cheng-fu told us them all. We just don’t pay attention to them because they are so simple.

I will be interested to hear your progress if you try and implement the essences. I was often told in the TTCS “You cannot do this yet because you are not ready, or you are not sufficiently advanced” What utter nonsense!!

Very best wishes

 

[DaPoets]

I'm very confused why you said "clearly we mean differnt things when we talk about sinking the chi to the dantien." This is something I have been doing for many years now and the steps you stated are natural to me and are done w/ out thought. Did I say something to make you think otherwise? Or are you comparing your TTCS experience to mine...

DaPoets,

Clearly we mean different things when we talk about sinking the chi to the dantien. In Traditional Yang we do this by applying Yang Cheng-fu’s 10 essences during our form practise. The first 5 essences are external and cumulative whilst the second 5 essences are internal. Try applying the first five essences the next time you do your form. They are:

• Lift the head – raise the spirit
• Sink the shoulders and elbows
• Loosen the chest and round the back
• Loosen the waist and open the Kua
• Differentiate between the substantial and insubstantial. (be aware of how the weight changes in the legs).

Remember they are cumulative. You cannot have essence two until; you are doing essence one and you cannot be doing essence 3 until you are doing essence 1 and 2 and so on. This is not an easy process, but is the whole and simple secret of Yang Family Taijiquan. Remember the saying “There are no secrets” – Yang Cheng-fu told us them all. We just don’t pay attention to them because they are so simple.

I will be interested to hear your progress if you try and implement the essences. I was often told in the TTCS “You cannot do this yet because you are not ready, or you are not sufficiently advanced” What utter nonsense!!

Very best wishes