Ryan Carson - Stabbing Victim - Running Didn't Work.-Awareness

[Oily Dragon]

Watch the video again. He clearly tried to run.

That's why I put "tried" in quotes. He barely got a few feet before he was fatally stabbed, because he had no situational awareness, which put him right next to the crazy kid. So running was kind of moot. If the crazy guy has had a gun, running away wouldn't have even mattered. Especially in this particular city.

I said this earlier but coming home in the middle of the early morning and making bad decisions is typical city life. People fall drunk in the street and sleep in puddles coming home from bars, parties, weddings. It's literally the worst time to try to be a white knight.

I also noticed that his girlfriend stopped at a greater distance than the guy.

Might have saved her life. Both of them could have been attacked and killed.

Lesson here is the same, don't approach agitated strangers in the street. There's just no justificiation. Whether it was being intoxicated or just trying to be a hero, the best self defense advice of all is keep your distance.

 

[Oily Dragon]

It's always a bit cringe when you're clinically discussing someone's murder and suggesting in some way that it was at least partially his fault.

I think it was. It's no different than those people who jump into tiger pens at the zoo, or cross the chimp DMZ alone and get mauled.

This wasn't "she was asking for it wearing that outfit". It was classic white knighting, and it served nothing but to end two lives, and ruin a third.

Mistakes happen, and it's ok to lay some blame on people making unsafe decisions. To do otherwise is to say they had no other choice. In this case, there were a thousand different decisions leading to a safe arrival home, that didn't involve putting yourself in the path of a deranged, violent stranger.

I think there is a big difference between being responsible or partially to blame, and "deserving it".

 

[marvin8]

I think it was. It's no different than those people who jump into tiger pens at the zoo, or cross the chimp DMZ alone and get mauled.

Agree. IMO, it's not cringe to discuss self-defense situations on a martial art forum. It can be a hard lesson for those that may not have that level of situational "awareness."

This wasn't "she was asking for it wearing that outfit". It was classic white knighting, and it served nothing but to end two lives, and ruin a third.

It's not what others think. It's what the aggressor may think, "They got money, easy mark, etc."

Mistakes happen, and it's ok to lay some blame on people making unsafe decisions. To do otherwise is to say they had no other choice. In this case, there were a thousand different decisions leading to a safe arrival home, that didn't involve putting yourself in the path of a deranged, violent stranger.

I think there is a big difference between being responsible or partially to blame, and "deserving it".

Agree. If Ryan chose to take an uber instead of sitting at a bus stop with his girlfriend at 4:00 am, he may be alive today.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's always a bit cringe when you're clinically discussing someone's murder and suggesting in some way that it was at least partially his fault.

Learn from the misery of others in hopes that it will never be your misery. The victims didn't have a chance to prep mentally or plan ahead. As bad as these things are I think it's important so long as we don't give a pass to the criminal.

I wouldn't place fault or blame on the victim. But I will identify actions that increased risk and decrease risk. The fault is 100% on the criminal. 100%. The criminal is the person who performed the violent action.

The only reason I don't focus on what the criminal should have done is because in life I don't have any control over what agressive person will do. The most that I can do is try to influence a bad situation where I can come out unharmed or at best alive.

Sometimes we try to handle more than we should and that's also a lesson. Things would have been different if the victim thought the Angry man had a weapon. For me personally, I assume that everyone has a weapon. That's my default setting.

 

[Hot Lunch]

The one thing that distinguishes us as men is understanding the fact that there's the way things should be, and then there's the way things are. And it's only when someone does not understand this that they use terms like "victim blaming."

You SHOULD be able to walk in ANY zip code with a Sea Dweller and a fresh new pair of Jays, but do it in Gary or East St Louis, and see what happens. And you know something else? Nobody's gonna feel sorry for you either.

 

[Steve]

I believe a few things to be true. I generally think self-defense is a macro level discussion. It's about playing the odds and trying to stack the deck in your favor. The danger of dissecting the misery of others (as you guys are putting it), is that it pretty quickly devolves into fiction where you reinforce your own biases.

This reminds me a lot of the thread from last year regarding Leandro Lo. This seems very much the same kind of discussion as that.

World Jiu-Jitsu Champion Killed

Just came across this news. This news makes me think of sports vs self defense when people wonder what the difference is. There are multiple stories about what happened but the end result is the same a lost of life at age 33.

www.martialtalk.com

 

[Oily Dragon]

I believe a few things to be true. I generally think self-defense is a macro level discussion. It's about playing the odds and trying to stack the deck in your favor. The danger of dissecting the misery of others (as you guys are putting it), is that it pretty quickly devolves into fiction where you reinforce your own biases.

This reminds me a lot of the thread from last year regarding Leandro Lo. This seems very much the same kind of discussion as that.

World Jiu-Jitsu Champion Killed

Just came across this news. This news makes me think of sports vs self defense when people wonder what the difference is. There are multiple stories about what happened but the end result is the same a lost of life at age 33.

www.martialtalk.com

Well I mean look no further than the Daniel Penny case. It has all the same hallmarks, except in this one the guy facing charges is considered to be a hero to some, a criminal vigilante to others, and the dead (mentally ill) man a tragedy/victory depending on who you ask.

End of day, it's not black and white (no pun intended). Subway vigilantism is not the answer, neither is choking out a mentally disturbed man no matter what bystanders felt at the time.

Shake off all the flamboyant news coverage, you're left with bad or at least unwise actions on all involved.

The subways in NY are covered with contact info for law enforcement, and everyone has a phone. But no one does that, they either do nothing, photograph it, or worst of all, intercede where they shouldn't.

What happens if it's Neely vs the killer on this case? Penny tries his choke, but gets fatally stabbed. Now he's a martyr for all the wanabe Batmen out there already looking for a reason to strangle a suspect looking homeless person. That's actually a problem in major cities: homeless people are routinely targeted by people for beatings and killings, because they are easy targets with few options.

I think people have been fed this stupid idea, mostly empowered by vigilante and superhero movies, that it's our job to take out things we perceive as threats. But that's a job for cops and trained authorities. Not the other spooked 99% of us.

Self defense itself is by and large a very limited defense in most places. You can't murder anyone just because you are scared....if that was the case society would devour itself.

Witnesses in Subway Chokehold Case Describe Fears of Death and Violence

In a request that the case be tossed out, lawyers for the defendant, Daniel Penny, drew on testimony from passengers who described their unease before Mr. Penny intervened.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Oily Dragon]

And I just watched the trailer for John Woo's new movie "Silent Night", which is supposed to be the next great action film. Looks awful and exploitive as it sounds.

It's a movie about a WASPy family whose little boy gets shot in his front yard on Christmas Day by (heavily tattooed and clearly Latino) ak-47 toting gang members.

Que dad planning his vengeance for the next 364 days, and blood soaked alpine green bad Christmas sweater images. This is entertainment? To me it's sick and disturbing, besides it's the 50th time the same movie (ala Death Wish) has been remade. Complete with racist stereotypes and angry, vengeance seeking parent who goes to the cops only to be told "hey buddy, sorry".

The real solution? Therapy and mental health support for all involved, while the criminal justice system does what it can.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The danger of dissecting the misery of others (as you guys are putting it), is that it pretty quickly devolves into fiction where you reinforce your own biases.

I'm willing to take this risk. I rather have someone call me out in a forum than for the streets to prove me I'm wrong. I counter the risk with a willingness to listen learn and admit when I'm wrong. I think if a person is willing to do this at a minimum then the risk of falling into fiction becomes very low.

I even rethought some of my thoughts on what happen and I realized that I was answer and viewing the situation as if I was alone. If I was with my wife or son then I would have warily kept my distance. My safety is one thing their safety is something more. I don't want to explain to my daughter ir son or her siblings how my actions got her killed. That's one thing I don't want to do in life.

I would have kept my distance easily. But that's just me. The risks that I take when I'm alone are not the same when I'm with my family.

 

[Holmejr]

Let’s see, it’s 3 or 4 in the morning, a crazy guy walks by you and starts freaking out just 20 feet away. You, had all the opportunity in the world to head out in the opposite direction, but being the justice warrior you are, feel the guy just needs a little TLC and a hug. This nutcase, wasn’t going to chase anybody down. The delusional justice warrior thought he could function in nutcases world, so he entered it under his own free will. Hard lesson.

Running, depends on the application. In the victims case he and girl buddy should have hightailed it as soon as nutcase passed them. It would have been his best self defense, after his buffoonery that is.

Running is an important part of self defense. Who wants to stay and fight? A person who is trained and composed can incapacitate an assailant, get out of dodge and call for help. A long long time ago, there was a creep who was approaching women at night in the parking lot of the college I was attending. Word went out and we would escort women to their vehicles if asked. Well, this creep decided to accost the wrong gal, as she was well trained. She incapacitated the jerk, ran and got help. When they came back the guy was still there, not physically capable of getting away. Never found out who she or the assailant was.

 

[Holmejr]

And I just watched the trailer for John Woo's new movie "Silent Night", which is supposed to be the next great action film. Looks awful and exploitive as it sounds.

It's a movie about a WASPy family whose little boy gets shot in his front yard on Christmas Day by (heavily tattooed and clearly Latino) ak-47 toting gang members.

Que dad planning his vengeance for the next 364 days, and blood soaked alpine green bad Christmas sweater images. This is entertainment? To me it's sick and disturbing, besides it's the 50th time the same movie (ala Death Wish) has been remade. Complete with racist stereotypes and angry, vengeance seeking parent who goes to the cops only to be told "hey buddy, sorry".

The real solution? Therapy and mental health support for all involved, while the criminal justice system does what it can.

They’re Protestant? Lol.
Like Wick movies, in a society of toxic masculinity, fear of doing or saying the wrong thing and getting outed because of it, guys need some release. Destroying bad guys vicariously in the movies is just a release. Ahh, the good ol days!

 

[Oily Dragon]

They’re Protestant? Lol.
Like Wick movies, in a society of toxic masculinity, fear of doing or saying the wrong thing and getting outed because of it, guys need some release. Destroying bad guys vicariously in the movies is just a release. Ahh, the good ol days!

Of course, all the good Catholics spend their whole Christmas day at mass, silly. That way nobody gets shot by the gang members.

Seriously, this movie looks so stupid. And for some reason, the trailer has to remind us every other second that John Woo made the film.

Deadly seriously, anybody trained with guns is going to look at this image and get triggered. I know I am. Who in their right mind...

 

[drop bear]

Let’s see, it’s 3 or 4 in the morning, a crazy guy walks by you and starts freaking out just 20 feet away. You, had all the opportunity in the world to head out in the opposite direction, but being the justice warrior you are, feel the guy just needs a little TLC and a hug. This nutcase, wasn’t going to chase anybody down. The delusional justice warrior thought he could function in nutcases world, so he entered it under his own free will. Hard lesson.

Running, depends on the application. In the victims case he and girl buddy should have hightailed it as soon as nutcase passed them. It would have been his best self defense, after his buffoonery that is.

Running is an important part of self defense. Who wants to stay and fight? A person who is trained and composed can incapacitate an assailant, get out of dodge and call for help. A long long time ago, there was a creep who was approaching women at night in the parking lot of the college I was attending. Word went out and we would escort women to their vehicles if asked. Well, this creep decided to accost the wrong gal, as she was well trained. She incapacitated the jerk, ran and got help. When they came back the guy was still there, not physically capable of getting away. Never found out who she or the assailant was.

Ok. If you had gotten stabbed escorting those women. Would have felt you did the wrong thing?