Russian Systema or Pencak Silat

GkiloGr

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Hello guys I have a big dilemma about what martial art should i start training.
I've watched many videos of russian systema and i liked very much the style and the movement you do and neutralise your opponent(s).i think its very useful for defending yourself in any situation you are into.
However a friend of mine told me about pencak silat and that we should go training together.i watched some videos of it too i found it very interesting but i dont know which one is better for me.
I'm more into systema but i would like some +/- about both arts.
 

Mephisto

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If you don't mind me asking, which systema videos do you find impressive? What about them impresses you?
 

Charlemagne

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Hello guys I have a big dilemma about what martial art should i start training.
I've watched many videos of russian systema and i liked very much the style and the movement you do and neutralise your opponent(s).i think its very useful for defending yourself in any situation you are into.
However a friend of mine told me about pencak silat and that we should go training together.i watched some videos of it too i found it very interesting but i dont know which one is better for me.
I'm more into systema but i would like some +/- about both arts.

The advice Brian gave you to go see some places is good.

One of the things I always look for is whether or not their intermediate and senior students look like they can handle themselves. If someone has been around for several years for regular training and they don't appear that they could defend themselves well in a real world situation, I would simply thank them for their time and walk away.

Keep in mind that one class may or may not be representative of how they train on a regular basis. Try watching one and then participate in a couple. Heck, I've been known to pay for a month of training just to get a better feel for the people and what the system is really like. Sometimes I have stuck around after the month was over and sometimes I have left for greener pastures. Sometimes the system is great and the teacher or the vibe from the students isn't good. Sometimes the people are sincere but the system is BS (some may try to tell you that the system doesn't matter. Don't listen. It does).

Where are you located? It may help people give advice if we know where you are and what your options might be.

Good luck.
 
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GkiloGr

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See what is available near you and go visit partake in a free class to see if you like how the instructor teaches. That is really important!

Both of the schools are near me.How the instructor teaches sure is important but i dont think that from the 1st class i can draw conclusions...
 
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GkiloGr

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If you don't mind me asking, which systema videos do you find impressive? What about them impresses you?
I've seen videos of vadim starov,mikhail ryabko and vladimir vasiliev.I find impressive how relaxed and simple moves the make and neutralise the opponent in every situation,you can just avoid an attack or even make big damage to the opponent
 
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GkiloGr

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The advice Brian gave you to go see some places is good.

One of the things I always look for is whether or not their intermediate and senior students look like they can handle themselves. If someone has been around for several years for regular training and they don't appear that they could defend themselves well in a real world situation, I would simply thank them for their time and walk away.

Keep in mind that one class may or may not be representative of how they train on a regular basis. Try watching one and then participate in a couple. Heck, I've been known to pay for a month of training just to get a better feel for the people and what the system is really like. Sometimes I have stuck around after the month was over and sometimes I have left for greener pastures. Sometimes the system is great and the teacher or the vibe from the students isn't good. Sometimes the people are sincere but the system is BS (some may try to tell you that the system doesn't matter. Don't listen. It does).

Where are you located? It may help people give advice if we know where you are and what your options might be.

Good luck.
I live in Greece so the options i have are limited.There are two schools of Russian Systema the 1st is with a level 1 master and the 2nd with a level 3 master and only one school of Pencak Silat
 

Mephisto

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I've seen videos of vadim starov,mikhail ryabko and vladimir vasiliev.I find impressive how relaxed and simple moves the make and neutralise the opponent in every situation,you can just avoid an attack or even make big damage to the opponent
I definately find the movement shown in most Systema videos interesting the question I have about all the systema videos I see it what does it look like when the opponent is resisting or actually attacking. It's easy to look calm and collected when your partner is compliant is they can still move the same way under pressure I'd be impressed but I suspect it looks much different in reality.
 
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GkiloGr

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I definately find the movement shown in most Systema videos interesting the question I have about all the systema videos I see it what does it look like when the opponent is resisting or actually attacking. It's easy to look calm and collected when your partner is compliant is they can still move the same way under pressure I'd be impressed but I suspect it looks much different in reality.
In every martial art video the opponent doesnt resist cause the instructor show the techniques so you can understand the movement and the way of the technique.if you repeat the technique all the time when you will need it in real life you will do it faster than the training and the opponent with be surprised and neutralised
 

Charlemagne

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In every martial art video the opponent doesnt resist cause the instructor show the techniques so you can understand the movement and the way of the technique.

Not 100% true. There are many times certainly in MA videos where the student is not resisting, but there are also many where the student is. I have not yet seen a video from Systema where there is any resistance at all.

I am not saying it doesn't exist or that it doesn't happen, but I have not seen it and would be interested in doing so should someone wish to share something along those lines. At some point, you have to validate your system, if you are remotely interested in being able to pull off what you train.
 

Mephisto

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In every martial art video the opponent doesnt resist cause the instructor show the techniques so you can understand the movement and the way of the technique.if you repeat the technique all the time when you will need it in real life you will do it faster than the training and the opponent with be surprised and neutralised
I can see the value in compliance to show a technique and get the movement down. Not to mention some moves just can't safely be trained at speed. But I do not believe that it's a good idea to train with compliance all the time. You can't rely on the opponent being "surprised" for a technique to be effective. I don't think you can judge a system's effectiveness based solely on compliant demomstrations. That being said systema has some interesting concepts that seem to be plausible but I'd like to see it trained with resistance before I can accept that it is an effective system.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Both of the schools are near me.How the instructor teaches sure is important but i dont think that from the 1st class i can draw conclusions...

The point is when someone new comes here to MartialTalk asking for an opinion on where to train. Is that they should explore what is available in their area by taking a free class, getting to know the other people practicing and also how the instructor teaches. Until you do that all you are doing is guessing at what you will like or not like!
 
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GkiloGr

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The point is when someone new comes here to MartialTalk asking for an opinion on where to train. Is that they should explore what is available in their area by taking a free class, getting to know the other people practicing and also how the instructor teaches. Until you do that all you are doing is guessing at what you will like or not like!
I think you are right
 

punisher73

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Again, try both. Don't let someone's opinion of the style influence you. Not every art is everyone's cup of tea. You will like what you like. But as far as systems go, this is the little bit I know.

I know very little of Silat, but it is very combat oriented and closer to it's roots in that regard.

Systema was supposedly taught to elite soldiers who already had a basis of training in Sambo or another art taught in the russian military. Part of that original training was in very extreme situations so that they could remain calm in a dangerous situation. This is VERY hard to do and replicate in the civilian world. The complain about Systema is the same one about Aikido. It require very precise timing to make it work and a very relaxed body. It will take many many years to accomplish this goal, so if your goal is being able to protect yourself sooner rather than later, keep that in mind. Most of the people I have seen that could "use" their systema training were already higher level martial artists.
 

Juany118

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Just Google "Systema is a fraud" and see what you get. Then Google the same MMA, Krav Maga or any number of other modern systems. Let that be your guide. In aggregate you will see the truth.
 

Ironbear24

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Nothing we can really do or say can help you make a choice. We don't know either place, or instructor. The best thing you can do is go to both and try them both.
 
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Dylan9d

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Pangamut kali silat i think

That more like a mixed style because Pangamut and Kali are from the Philippines and Silat from Indonesia, might be a Dan Inosanto school. If so check it out might be interesting....

As for Systema, I had a lesson once so I'm not really the best person to ask but I never continued because it was a little to vague for me
 

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