Russel Means: Welcome to the Reservation

[Makalakumu]

Good thoughts here...

 

[K-man]

Good thoughts here...

Well, that's my afternoon gone.

A lot makes sense and a lot I don't know about. Is his historical account true or is it the 'other side'? Regardless of that, his assessment of the financial health of America, the devastation wreaked by Wall Street, the dishonesty of the Derivative marketers and the general decline in lifestyle seems right on the button. :asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, that's my afternoon gone.

A lot makes sense and a lot I don't know about. Is his historical account true or is it the 'other side'? Regardless of that, his assessment of the financial health of America, the devastation wreaked by Wall Street, the dishonesty of the Derivative marketers and the general decline in lifestyle seems right on the button. :asian:

That's got to be very interesting to someone who is not an American. How much do Aussies learn about our relationship with our natives? Are parallels ever drawn between our treatment of Native Americans and Aborigines?

I thought his metaphor describing the whole country as one big reservation now was apt. I guess an American Indian would know.

 

[K-man]

That's got to be very interesting to someone who is not an American. How much do Aussies learn about our relationship with our natives? Are parallels ever drawn between our treatment of Native Americans and Aborigines?

I thought his metaphor describing the whole country as one big reservation now was apt. I guess an American Indian would know.

Not really, as you had settlers spreading out all over the country supported by military. You had Indian Wars as well. We basically had neither. We started off with land holding individuals training their workers as private militias which were then available to the colonies if required. These were not used against the Aboriginal people.

Our army wasn't founded until 1903 although we did send 16,000 men to the Boer War in 1899. Basically these formed irregular forces of men you could ride and shoot.

The Aboriginals were more pushed off their land as their prior ownership was never acknowledged. Because their source of food was taken they would occasionally spear stock and the whites would seek retribution as a deterrent.

The Aboriginals ended up in communities set up by missionaries which in the main were probably worse than the Indian reservations, their culture was all but lost in many instances and it is a sad part of our history.

As to Australian's knowledge of the American Indian. These days I doubt that many of the Aussies under 40 would have much appreciation at all.

We grew up with the Cowboy and Indian movies. John Wayne shot more Indians than most. We knew all about Custer, Billie, the Kid, Buffalo Bill etc. We had the Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers and Hopalong Cassidy. There was no television until 1956 and we all went to the 'pictures' on a Saturday afternoon. It was a world away from the Australian outback which is still sparsely populated due to the arid nature of inland Australia.

So, I would assume our burocrats would be abreast of what is happening to indigenous people elsewhere but within the general population I doubt there would be much interest.

I suppose I just like to know what's happening in the rest of the world. :asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

Not really, as you had settlers spreading out all over the country supported by military. You had Indian Wars as well. We basically had neither. We started off with land holding individuals training their workers as private militias which were then available to the colonies if required. These were not used against the Aboriginal people.

Our army wasn't founded until 1903 although we did send 16,000 men to the Boer War in 1899. Basically these formed irregular forces of men you could ride and shoot.

The Aboriginals were more pushed off their land as their prior ownership was never acknowledged. Because their source of food was taken they would occasionally spear stock and the whites would seek retribution as a deterrent.

The Aboriginals ended up in communities set up by missionaries which in the main were probably worse than the Indian reservations, their culture was all but lost in many instances and it is a sad part of our history.

As to Australian's knowledge of the American Indian. These days I doubt that many of the Aussies under 40 would have much appreciation at all.

We grew up with the Cowboy and Indian movies. John Wayne shot more Indians than most. We knew all about Custer, Billie, the Kid, Buffalo Bill etc. We had the Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers and Hopalong Cassidy. There was no television until 1956 and we all went to the 'pictures' on a Saturday afternoon. It was a world away from the Australian outback which is still sparsely populated due to the arid nature of inland Australia.

So, I would assume our burocrats would be abreast of what is happening to indigenous people elsewhere but within the general population I doubt there would be much interest.

I suppose I just like to know what's happening in the rest of the world. :asian:

I've always found it interesting to learn about the history of native peoples and how they were displaced by colonial powers. It's good information to know about because I feel that it gives context into how our country was formed. Basically, the story is the same wherever you look.

The exception is New Zealand. The Kiwis have a relationship with the Maori that doesn't exist anywhere else to my knowledge. I think they truly were the only native people to have never been conquered and to have an equal stake in the government. The Treaty of Waitangi is unique because it seems like they actually mean to keep it.

In the US we have similar treaties that we made with native people and there was absolutely no intention of keeping them.

 

[K-man]

We had no treaty because there was no "war". Because of the arid nature of the continent and the Aboriginal lack of 'traditional' housing, the continent was declared "Terra Nullius" or no one's land.

Aborigines lived in Australia for many thousands of years before Europeans discovered the continent. Claiming the land as terra nullius — 'empty land' or 'land belonging to nobody' — Europeans set out the foundation of land law that was to last more than 200 years and have devastating effects on the original inhabitants of the land. http://www.visitvictoria.com/displayobject.cfm/objectid.0003A614-D962-1A88-8B4680C476A9047C/

We didn't even count Aboriginals as people in the census until 1971. In 1967 I voted in the referendum that gave Aboriginal people the right to vote. Since then we have had numerous land right claims and court cases the result of which is very significant areas of land returned to the control of Aboriginal people.

Native title and land rights both recognise the traditional rights of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples' to land. However, they are legally very different. One (native title) is based on traditional indigenous ownership of land and waters, while the other (land rights) is a legislative response by parliaments to those traditional rights.
From the mid 1970s the Australia Federal and State governments began to legislate to return certain Crown (Government) land to indigenous communities and to allow claims to to other Crown land. The 1976 Aboriginal Land Rights Act, which applies to the Northern Territory, is the best known example. These actions were based on the perceived need of indigenous people to have access to, or ownership of, their country.
http://www.aboriginalartonline.com/culture/land-rights.php

Even though we as a country are trying to address the injustices of the past, we have a way to go and many of our Aboriginal people are still living in third world conditions despite royalties from mining flooding into some communities. It is far more complicated than you could imagine. :asian: