Revised Policies: Non-Desirables

Errant108

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And how is calling me ****-Salsa NOT pointing it out?

Largely because until you clarified it, I had no idea what was behind those four asterisk. Given the lack of gentlemanly behavior of some posters around women, I had assumed they were attacking your femininity.

Sulsa pronounced with the schwa sound for the "u" would be diarrhea. Sool-Sa would be "technician." Mkay?

설사/Seolsa is indeed the pronounciation of diarrhea. Where as 術師/술사/sulsa is the term you're looking for. The problem is that it is a term that has virtually no use outside of the Hwarangdo's imagined past, and the average Korean is going to think a Westerner is misprouncing a term indicating that they have stomach condition. The last time I saw it happen, that person was directed to the restroom.

The only area that the term finds much use is in manhwa, Korean comic books.
 

shesulsa

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Largely because until you clarified it, I had no idea what was behind those four asterisk. Given the lack of gentlemanly behavior of some posters around women, I had assumed they were attacking your femininity.



설사/Seolsa is indeed the pronounciation of diarrhea. Where as 術師/술사/sulsa is the term you're looking for. The problem is that it is a term that has virtually no use outside of the Hwarangdo's imagined past, and the average Korean is going to think a Westerner is misprouncing a term indicating that they have stomach condition. The last time I saw it happen, that person was directed to the restroom.

The only area that the term finds much use is in manhwa, Korean comic books.

I've honestly gone by what other people who speak Korean fluently have told me. I'm much too ancient and far too busy to pursue much more than what is on my plate at the moment. Interesting you say "sulsa is the term you're lookng for" ... it's the term I picked and for a reason. Please look again - it is not SheSeolsa ... it is shesulsa.

Thank you for your time.
 

Steve

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Steve,

I like you presenting this information, and I would not like to cause any negative backlash to your "Steveness", but I will present my concerns.

In the beginning if you did not "roll" you were crap.

If you were no the military weight charts with 2 to 4 % body fat then you were crap.

Then it moved to if someone vouched for you then you were ok.

Then it turned into the Shark infested scum pound. Where newbies were attacked for being newbies , unless vouched for by a long time member.

** I pretty much stopped browsing at that point except to spot hit the stie from time to time.
Honestly, I don't know the entire history of Bullshido. I know that since I rolled into it in June of 06, it's been pretty consistent. I don't post there often because I tend to click on "New Posts" and found it difficult to keep up with the insane volume of posts they have... and lots of white noise in the YMAS forums. :) As I said before, I like this site and that one for different reasons.

But... maybe I'm not aware of what kind of reputation I have around here. What the heck is "Steveness?" I'm genuinely intrigued by that. I hope it's either really good or really bad! :D
 

Jenna

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But... maybe I'm not aware of what kind of reputation I have around here. What the heck is "Steveness?" I'm genuinely intrigued by that. I hope it's either really good or really bad! :D
Yes, I am wondering that myself, and moreover, can anybody acquire a level of "Steveness"?

haha I like that..
 

Xue Sheng

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My 64 year old mom takes Tai Chi and no one here or on Bullshido would say anything bad about that. My mom harbors no delusions about learning self defense skills or to be a street fighter. She's doing it for exercise, to help her balance and her flexibility.

ahh but what would they say about my 70 year old taiji sifu who as trained nothing but taiji for over 50 years and has no desire to prove anything to anybody and yet he can throw me around like a rag doll.
 

bluekey88

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Yes, I am wondering that myself, and moreover, can anybody acquire a level of "Steveness"?

haha I like that..


I did that once...but I had to kill like 50 orcs or something.

No...wait...that's a level of NERDNESS. Not sure how one acquires alevel of steveness.

:D

Peace,
Erik
 

Errant108

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ahh but what would they say about my 70 year old taiji sifu who as trained nothing but taiji for over 50 years and has no desire to prove anything to anybody and yet he can throw me around like a rag doll.

A couple things;

1) I'd ask if you regularly engaged in tuishou, which, it sounds like you, given that he's tossing you. If he's just tossing you in demonstrations, I'm not going to give it much credence.

2) At age 70, no one has anything to prove to anyone. In fact, you have nothing to prove to anyone about anything.

However, if you come to me with a claim, I'm going to want proof. I'm going to want to see evidence, or feel it.

Challenging an old man is an jerk move (and one the Gracies pulled on my friend's father, so don't think I'm a BJJ lover). However, if you're his student, why not come play with me, and see what happens? It's not a challenge, it's a chance for me to evaluate whether or not your claims are true, whether or not I could learn something from your teacher...and most importantly, it's a chance for both of us to have a good time training together.

The credo of Bullshido is that if you make the claim, you have to prove it. If you are unwilling to, by either physical demonstration or suitable evidence, then no one is going to give you any credibility.

We've seen that Taijiquan, when trained under certain paramaters, is an excellent system for developing a clinch and throw game that can be a vital part of developing an overall fighter. Given that, it's just a matter of seeing if someone making a claim trains in methods that match with what we've seen work.
 

Rich Parsons

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Honestly, I don't know the entire history of Bullshido. I know that since I rolled into it in June of 06, it's been pretty consistent. I don't post there often because I tend to click on "New Posts" and found it difficult to keep up with the insane volume of posts they have... and lots of white noise in the YMAS forums. :) As I said before, I like this site and that one for different reasons.

But... maybe I'm not aware of what kind of reputation I have around here. What the heck is "Steveness?" I'm genuinely intrigued by that. I hope it's either really good or really bad! :D

Yes, I am wondering that myself, and moreover, can anybody acquire a level of "Steveness"?

haha I like that..

Off Topic: (* Sorry but answering the question for the source of my comment *)

I apologize it is from a movie called "The Tao of Steve" See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Steve

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donal_Logue

***

On Topic:

Like I said Steve, thanks for presenting a clear and positive point of view for Bullshido. I may look at them again.

Thanks
 

Jenna

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Off Topic: (* Sorry but answering the question for the source of my comment *)

I apologize it is from a movie called "The Tao of Steve" See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Steve

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donal_Logue

***

On Topic:

Like I said Steve, thanks for presenting a clear and positive point of view for Bullshido. I may look at them again.

Thanks

Aha! Thank you Rich for explaining.

And yes to our SteveBJJ thank you too for representing in such a balanced way. Man, if only there were more like you..

Yes I am sorry for breaking the flow of the topic. Jenna
 

Xue Sheng

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A couple things;

1) I'd ask if you regularly engaged in tuishou, which, it sounds like you, given that he's tossing you. If he's just tossing you in demonstrations, I'm not going to give it much credence.

2) At age 70, no one has anything to prove to anyone. In fact, you have nothing to prove to anyone about anything.

However, if you come to me with a claim, I'm going to want proof. I'm going to want to see evidence, or feel it.

Challenging an old man is an jerk move (and one the Gracies pulled on my friend's father, so don't think I'm a BJJ lover). However, if you're his student, why not come play with me, and see what happens? It's not a challenge, it's a chance for me to evaluate whether or not your claims are true, whether or not I could learn something from your teacher...and most importantly, it's a chance for both of us to have a good time training together.

The credo of Bullshido is that if you make the claim, you have to prove it. If you are unwilling to, by either physical demonstration or suitable evidence, then no one is going to give you any credibility.

We've seen that Taijiquan, when trained under certain paramaters, is an excellent system for developing a clinch and throw game that can be a vital part of developing an overall fighter. Given that, it's just a matter of seeing if someone making a claim trains in methods that match with what we've seen work.

This is going way off topic but...

You have already taken this a few step beyond what I was asking and made it confrontational and I was no where near that.

I have little or no experience with Bullshido and likely will not get any, to be honest the whole web thing is getting a bit tiresome, but I am simply wonder, based on the post that Stevenbjj made and knowing how many view (and practice Taiji) what the feeling or response would be if you mentioned a 70 year old that does taiji and also said it is a martial art. Not asking to fight, not wanting to fight and not looking for a fight, not showing up and saying I do taiji and I want to take on all comers not claiming vast martial arts ability or bragging about all those vanquished just saying I do martial arts and it is taiji and I am 70.

I am guessing, and this is exactly that a guess, that he would not be taken seriously many places outside of an IMA board and even less so on a site like Bullshido. To be honest he would never go to any of them and if someone walked up to him and slapped together a whole lot of profanity to tell him he was a useless fake his only response would likely be your right, but then my Sanda Sifu would likely do the same as well so I am guessing in those cases it is a Chinese thing. They know what they are what they can and cannot do and do not really care about anyone beyond their Sifu as far as credibility goes. Which to me (going further off post) that is a real issue with all of this web nonsense, even here on MT with the copious TMA vs. RSBD vs. MMA stuff. Why does the opinion of a faceless and generally nameless person that you have no idea who they really are matter one whip about anything and how on earth does credibility from such a place that matter at all. They simply are not that important to reality as it exists for a martial artist IMO. And further more if you take the stance that either Sifu I had would they would instantaneously be labeled fake and the labelers would go off happy with there success and patting themselves on the back for a job well done when in reality it does not really matter at all.... as one told me early on MT when I was whining about Taiji dieing as a martial art "shut up and train"(and as much as it may pain me to admit it they were right in that case) and training is sure one heck of a lot more productive that the self congratulatory act after a delusional defeat of an opponent that was never fighting

Now on another site I use to go on fraud busting (hey look xue might be going back on topic..NAH!!! :D) was generally based on lineage and fake claims that could be "historically" proven as factual or fake. And if that is what happening on Bullshido then more power to them, but if it is simply yelling about if you don't prove it your a fake then it is baseless, pointless and of little meaning,

From my little experience with Bullshido it is not a real nice place to be, but I am more than willing to admit I could be very wrong since I am only judging it based on a few visits to look it over and leave and to be honest a place like the old EF could get pretty nasty as well but I was still posting there form time to time and there was silly *** arguments there to (I got in a couple, one I had to back off and post something that was basically oops, I'm an idiot because I was missing the point) and stupid comments but there were a lot of very knowledgeable people there that made it worth reading and maybe that is the case with Bullshido as well and all I saw when I was there were the loud mouths.

Wow...that was a a Xue rant and i never saw it coming...sorry about that.
 

Errant108

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This is going way off topic but...

You have already taken this a few step beyond what I was asking and made it confrontational and I was no where near that.

I'm not interested in any sort of confrontation with you, on this board, or in real life. There seem to be some misunderstandings as to what Bullshido's position on things are, and I'm just trying to clear those up.

I have little or no experience with Bullshido and likely will not get any, to be honest the whole web thing is getting a bit tiresome, but I am simply wonder, based on the post that Stevenbjj made and knowing how many view (and practice Taiji) what the feeling or response would be if you mentioned a 70 year old that does taiji and also said it is a martial art.

If a 70-year old tells me Taijiquan is a martial art, I'm going to take him at face-value and agree with him. I've seen Taijiquan used as a martial art, I've seen it trained in a martial fashion. This is slightly different from what you said earlier, and thus a different response. The majority of posters on Bullshido will agree that Taijiquan is a martial art. We have video footage of rigorous, full contact tuishou from China, so there is little doubt that Taijiquan is a martial art.

At the same time, you can't deny that the majority of people in the US who train in Taijiquan do not do so in any sort of martial fashion.

This creates a dichotomy when discussing this issue.

Steve's grandmother does not train Taijiquan as a martial art. She wouldn't claim to either.

However, you and I both know that there are countless people who claim to train in martial Taijiquan yet do not train in any sort of martial fashion.

We have to distinguish between these three classes of Taijiquan practitioners.

Two of them, Bullshido won't have a problem with.

One of them, we will.

Wow...that was a a Xue rant and i never saw it coming...sorry about that.

No worries.
 

Steve

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This is going way off topic but...

You have already taken this a few step beyond what I was asking and made it confrontational and I was no where near that.

I have little or no experience with Bullshido and likely will not get any, to be honest the whole web thing is getting a bit tiresome, but I am simply wonder, based on the post that Stevenbjj made and knowing how many view (and practice Taiji) what the feeling or response would be if you mentioned a 70 year old that does taiji and also said it is a martial art. Not asking to fight, not wanting to fight and not looking for a fight, not showing up and saying I do taiji and I want to take on all comers not claiming vast martial arts ability or bragging about all those vanquished just saying I do martial arts and it is taiji and I am 70.

I am guessing, and this is exactly that a guess, that he would not be taken seriously many places outside of an IMA board and even less so on a site like Bullshido. To be honest he would never go to any of them and if someone walked up to him and slapped together a whole lot of profanity to tell him he was a useless fake his only response would likely be your right, but then my Sanda Sifu would likely do the same as well so I am guessing in those cases it is a Chinese thing. They know what they are what they can and cannot do and do not really care about anyone beyond their Sifu as far as credibility goes. Which to me (going further off post) that is a real issue with all of this web nonsense, even here on MT with the copious TMA vs. RSBD vs. MMA stuff. Why does the opinion of a faceless and generally nameless person that you have no idea who they really are matter one whip about anything and how on earth does credibility from such a place that matter at all. They simply are not that important to reality as it exists for a martial artist IMO. And further more if you take the stance that either Sifu I had would they would instantaneously be labeled fake and the labelers would go off happy with there success and patting themselves on the back for a job well done when in reality it does not really matter at all.... as one told me early on MT when I was whining about Taiji dieing as a martial art "shut up and train"(and as much as it may pain me to admit it they were right in that case) and training is sure one heck of a lot more productive that the self congratulatory act after a delusional defeat of an opponent that was never fighting

Now on another site I use to go on fraud busting (hey look xue might be going back on topic..NAH!!! :D) was generally based on lineage and fake claims that could be "historically" proven as factual or fake. And if that is what happening on Bullshido then more power to them, but if it is simply yelling about if you don't prove it your a fake then it is baseless, pointless and of little meaning,

From my little experience with Bullshido it is not a real nice place to be, but I am more than willing to admit I could be very wrong since I am only judging it based on a few visits to look it over and leave and to be honest a place like the old EF could get pretty nasty as well but I was still posting there form time to time and there was silly *** arguments there to (I got in a couple, one I had to back off and post something that was basically oops, I'm an idiot because I was missing the point) and stupid comments but there were a lot of very knowledgeable people there that made it worth reading and maybe that is the case with Bullshido as well and all I saw when I was there were the loud mouths.

Wow...that was a a Xue rant and i never saw it coming...sorry about that.
Xue, I get your point, but you did invite the response Errant made by making a specific claim about the effectiveness of your teacher's martial arts. He very simply pointed out that if you went to a board like Bullshido and said, "hey, my teacher has no interest in fighting or proving himself. But boy, he can toss me around like a sack of grapes and whether he shows you or not, his taiji IS effective in a fight," you would likely be asked to substantiate the claim in some way. Now, I realize that you didn't specifically say the last part, but it was implied when you ended your last post with, "and yet he can throw me around like a rag doll."

As Errant said, if anything, the question that this raises is, "can he throw other people around like a rag doll?" Lots of teachers toss around students, but can't seem to make it work on other people. He also, I think very correctly, pointed out that anyone who challenges a 70 year old man is a jerk (to apply an MT censor to what I might say on Bullshido.)

The key here, though, is that if there aren't any outlandish claims, there's no issue. I get a kick out of the guys who make claims and then, when questioned, say they have nothing to prove. "My WC is the REAL WC." Really? Prove it. "I have nothing to prove."
 

Archangel M

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I went and sifted through these BS threads.

Im still unclear on what exactly it is they want or expect over there.

Do they have a problem that people here can list various arts on their profiles without "proof" of training? Do they require it?

Or does it only matter if people are opening schools or making money off of bogus rank claims?
 
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Bob Hubbard

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First Bullshido troll banned:
MT Name: Peach Stealer
Bullshido user: NJM

Reason: Fake account registered solely to screw with us.
 

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Bob Hubbard

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Second Bullshido Troll baned:
MT User:swordagjin
Bullshido User: unknown
Reason: Racist Postings with intent to disrupt forum / posted under fake name

Looks like the Low IQ crowd at Bullshido is doing their usual game playing despite the High IQ members there working on cooperating together. Guys, just to let you know, we'll still work with you, despite the couple of low IQ losers in question.

But I will continue to announce each and every one of their bannings as they happen.
 

shesulsa

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Second Bullshido Troll baned:
MT User:swordagjin
Bullshido User: unknown
Reason: Racist Postings with intent to disrupt forum / posted under fake name

Looks like the Low IQ crowd at Bullshido is doing their usual game playing despite the High IQ members there working on cooperating together. Guys, just to let you know, we'll still work with you, despite the couple of low IQ losers in question.

But I will continue to announce each and every one of their bannings as they happen.

I know you've refrained from doing this for a long time, Bob, and I know why. I hope some good will come out of this, even if only the exposed evidence of what they've been doing for years.
 
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Bob Hubbard

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Guys like Steve and Errant are here and being cool. I'd like them to continue to feel welcome here. It's the trouble makers who aren't welcome.

We ask for a name and a location, as most frauds won't even give you that much. Most spam bots also rarely give you that. Helps us weed out most of the crap. The few that get through, don't last long. There is -NO- way to verify ID online, without going to a pay system, and doing credit card validation or subscribing to one of the dozen porn industry id check services. If it looks legit, we accept it, trusting that most people will be honest and not jerks. As long as they don't slip up or give us cause to ask, we accept that. When there is cause, we ask for a notarized copy of a redacted government issued ID for verification. The frauds and real trolls never send in anything. It's not fool proof, but it's what works for us without undue headaches to the 95% of our members who never cause us any reason for doubt in their integrity.

A few folks don't get that. That's their problem, and as we find them, we'll keep banning their low IQ selves.
 

Xue Sheng

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Errant108 and stevebjj

First, my bad, I was not clear

The statement "toss me around like a rag doll" was only for the sole purpose of this conversation as a comparison to those that do not do taiji as a martial art and those that do and in response to stevenbjj's statement about his grandmother. It would have no way been posted in any conversation at Bullshido (that and I have no plan at all to post on Bullshido but then I am beginning to wonder why I post anywhere these days but that is besides that point)

I was simply asking about how “Bullshido” would respond to anyone that showed up on the page saying they did Taiji as a martial art, not hey I do Taiji and my sifu can kick my ***.

As to confrontational, it was not actually directed at anyone specifically it was directed at the general response to the question I thought I had asked which was how would "Bullshido" respond to anyone that showed up on the page saying they did Taiji as a martial art. However due to my wording I was not clear.
My apologies for not being clear.

And for purposes of clearing this stuff up (not for bullshido :D) my sifu doesn't do demos or advertise and I am his last serious student so tossing me around like a rag doll is tuishou, occasionally painful, rather cool and generally with no other students around. He is also the only person whose Qinna I have absolutely no clue is coming until it is to late and I am locked and I do not have his level of skill, but I’m working on it.

As to taiji as a martial art, I tend to agree with Chen Xiaowang that for all intensive purposes it is dead due to the fact there are so few that know anything about the martial arts side of it as compared to those that do not. And my sifu has also said he has retired from teaching taiji since no one want to learn it, all he teaches now are forms. All students want these days are a few forms and then to run off and teach, no one wants the MA of it any longer which lead to him telling me I am his last serious taiji student but then I am his last long time student as well.

But none of this by any means changes my stance which I posted in stevenbjj’s thread where I pretty much said I dislike all martial arts, they are all ineffective and pathetic and if they have hippies in it (and taiji is full-o-them) doubly so :D

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread and I am sorry for the hijack
 
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Xue Sheng

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Sorry, one more interuption

The key here, though, is that if there aren't any outlandish claims, there's no issue. I get a kick out of the guys who make claims and then, when questioned, say they have nothing to prove. "My WC is the REAL WC." Really? Prove it. "I have nothing to prove."

One last comment, and I do not mean this to be insulting or derogatory and after this I am done. Something about Chinese culture that causes issues in this type of thing and leave most Americans practice exactly what I previously posted

“Self congratulatory acts, after delusional defeats, of opponents that were never fighting”


In a lot of areas of Chinese culture, not just CMA asking a Chinese person to “prove it” does not necessarily produce in them the need to actually prove anything at all.

At times they do not take us seriously as we tend to take ourselves and as arrogant as this can be we are equally guilty of arrogance on this from a slightly different POV. They can look as us as not serious and could care less about our opinion and we do take them seriously and we are so certain we are so important that our opinion should matter to all.

My taiji sifu would not tell anyone what he does and if someone found out and asked him to prove it and carried that further to calling him a fake for not proving it would like agree with them and tell him they are right he is a fake, as would my Sanda sifu.

And you are likely to get the same response from multiple Chinese people in various areas and professions if they are from and trained on mainland China. This is a BIG cultural difference I have come across, bragging and proving things to others does not seem to be that important. Many Chinese millionaires will tell you they are poor and it is not a tax issue it is just cultural.

However none of this is saying that there are not charlatans and fakes out there that are Chinese making outrageous claims of great skill, my first sifu makes them all of the time these days. But then my taiji sifu will not even talk to him and (and you would need to check with a real CMA guy to know what this means) but my last sanda sifu has no problem calling my first sifu a flower fist when he sees him… in Chinese of course.

But then none of the people I have mentioned (other than my first sifu) go around telling any one anything about what they know or how good they are. As far as CMA is concerned it has been my experience that the best sifus do not really advertise much if at all and talk to few people about MA and never brag… this has been my experience with Wing Chun too, I know 3 Wing Chun teachers in my area, one tells all how tough he is, one has a school listed in the phone book and that is it and one does not advertise at all the first is a student of some guy (American) in Syracuse who is supposedly in the Mo Yat lineage the second (American) is a student of Ip Ching and the 3rd (Chinese) is a student of Ip Man :asian:
 
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grydth

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Looking at this episode as a complete outsider - I couldn't pick Matt Morton out of a 2 man line up - I am left with the same question Steve McQueen had at the close of The Sand Pebbles : "What the hell happened?"

On the face of things, the Bullshido contingent got what they appear to have come for. Matt Morton, who had many senior people among his 62 friends, is now listed as a "Banned User".

Yet, I note little or no gratitude toward Bullshido.... could it be because some acted more like a lynch mob member than a Roman Tribune? Could it be because they insisted on fighting this drama here, even when it was not wanted?... and that they were coarse and condescending to their unwilling hosts? Could it be that their behavior, motives yield some questions as well?

Ultimately, what is gained? If Mr Morton be a fraud, he presumably gains from it by teaching, not posting here. Tossing him off an internet forum won't affect very much in the real world. One might just as well blacken the name of grydth across the length and breadth of Tasmania.

It could be that more harm than good will result from this entire episode.
 

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