"Real" Aikido

Endow

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Okay so like I said in another thread I'm currnetly investigating which martial art I should start practicing.I'm strongly inclined to pick Aikido specially after reading an interview with Tristão da Cunha (probably the best portuguese aikidoka who trained with Saito Sensei more than once).

However he also expressed how ketchup can only be called ketchup if the recipe is the original.If you had garlic or take tomato it won't be ketchup anymore.

He was talking about the Aikido taught by O-Sensei and Saito Sensei.The ture Iwama-ryu.


Like I said after reading his words I just felt I couldn't simply learn anyother type of Aikido but I also wondered what exactly he meant by different recipes.

So do you guys think there is such a thing as the true Aikido?
And how do you guys think the other types of Aikido differ?



If anyone read my other thread let me tell I managed to find a second Aikido school on town.I'm a bit afraid tho that they aren't very good at it and that they don't pay too much credit to the actual concept of the art.(even tho I can't tell right now since I haven't tried either one out).




PS:I'm not naive and im not 100% un-skeptical about they guy's words.But after hearing his story's during his times at Iwama I really thought Aikido could be the best thing ever...
 

samurai69

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Endow said:
So do you guys think there is such a thing as the true Aikido?
And how do you guys think the other types of Aikido differ?


...

I think O sensais aikido was the true aikido at/of his/its times.......it changed according to his change in beliefs and his age


but then my aikido is true to me as yours should become true to you

either way enjoy it for what it is
 

Shirt Ripper

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samurai69 said:
either way enjoy it for what it is

Yes.

My teacher's teacher studied under O Sensei (and then his son, upon his death) but I wasn't necessarily exposed to the same "style" of aikido as was taught by O Sensei. Interpretation.
 

Buddha1

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Even if you train in a different recipe (variation) of Aikido, your Aikido will still be effective. The variation has been made for the better. Don't worry about it.
 

MartialIntent

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Endow welcome to MT!

I'd agree with samurai69 and Shirt Ripper and I think personally that to talk of "true" Aikido is to go too deep into the semantics of the thing. I mean one person's gonna argue that the only true current style is Aikikai being endorsed by Ueshiba's direct lineage. Someone else'd argue that if an artist studied under Ueshiba and then used their *own* ideas to interpret those of O'Sensei then that constitutes true Aikido [everything from my own Shodokan to Iwama style to the Yoshinkan and the whole spectrum of variants]. Others might suggest that an art working itself under the AiKi philosophy that O'Sensei was so direct about is a true interpretation and others still will say it's sufficient that the techniques are DRAJJ-based or similar to those of Ueshiba variant Aikido [NGA for example].

For me I think all these arguments are valid in their way but at the same time are not entirely conducive to anything. I mean how does it help you knowing that person-A believes *your* Aikido to be the "true" version?

If I could offer you any advice it'd be to go with what's comfortable for you. If you've been out to a dojo but didn't like what they're doing well that's fair enough, don't go there but don't rule out any Aikido [or any other art for that matter] just because someone told you it wasn't the real thing. Do what's best for yourself, after all if you've been training in that elusive "true" Aikido and find out after a year you don't get it or don't like it, well, how's it benefitted you knowing that even if you don't like it that it's still the best type of Aikido there is?

Respects!
 
OP
Endow

Endow

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Well the thing is what got me attracted to Aikido was that vision of Iwama.Say I end up beeing exposed to a street-fight-mentality Aikido.Sure I'm bound to get something out of it.I know I will be able to say "this thaught this and that" after a year or so.

But in the end it might not be what I was looking for in the first place.




I think that in a way my problem is wanting to learn a budo and not having a clear source to base myself on....or not beeing able to proudly defend Aikido (assuming I end up liking it) since there is no such thing as THE way of aiki....


I mean what is a prespective aikidoka to think of the sport-alization of phyilosophy which is based on non-competitiveness?
 

Darren Brooks

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To consider the question of whether Aikido has somehow become disconnected from its martial roots, I would answer that Aikido, from its inception, was never was connected to any other art.

Oh, I know there are those elements in Aikido which speak of the way of the sword, and Jujitsu (Aikijitsu), etc. But what I really want to say is I think O Sensei loved Aikido because he could bring back his personality and humor into martial training. By this I mean, whenever I've heard O Sensei's students talk about their training with him, it is always, always in the spirit of great fun and amazement. I have never heard them speak of how serious the training was, or whether it was a "real" martial art.

Yes, they said the training was challenging and could be dangerous if they lost focus, but that is much different than saying the tone of the school was without joy, without beginners' mind. O Sensei had proven his art time and time again, and when his students today speak of his skill, they never talk in terms of how he overpowered them or smashed them to the floor or some such thing, but how quick, efficient and mystically amazing his skill was.

Maybe he's the only one who can truly perform Aikido because the art came pure only from him, and his unique connection with the divine. His students told me how he would let his advanced students do most of the teaching, and then he would come in to "have some fun" and show some refinements and discuss the philosophy. Its as if O Sensei found a way to continue teaching even as he was returning to his own roots, his own sense of humor, and his own inner truths.

So as to whether Aikido can be considered a "real" martial art, I would ask why is it still so important for us to judge ourselves based upon how well we can control others - either by damaging them, or by immobilization? Why is it we are finding ourselves in a situation where we must fight? Anger, embarrasement, fear? Is this really fun?

Perhaps it is time, like O Sensei, for us all to remember our humor and joyful selves, and in this way begin practicing the "real" Aikido.
 

theletch1

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I fail to see why my definition of what "real" aikido is should have any affect on ANY other aikido-ka in the world. So long as you are enjoying yourself, getting what you want from your training and becoming a better person as a result of your training then so be it. 'Course being an NGA practitioner and hearing over and over again that my art isn't real aikido may have biased my answer a bit. I'm certain that there are a million different definition of real aikido. That definition should, IMO, be different for every aikido-ka out there since aikido is something that must be made your own. No-one in the world does aikido the exact same way (physically and spiritually) that O'sensei or Shioda Morita did it. That would mean that the two obvious choices are that NO-ONE does real aikido anymore or that anyone who has made aikido their own is doing "real" aikido regardless of the title that the style has had put on it.

Hey, just go to the dojo, enjoy the fellowship of your classmates learn a little, teach a little and LIVE!
 

jujutsu_indonesia

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Endow said:
So do you guys think there is such a thing as the true Aikido?
And how do you guys think the other types of Aikido differ?

Any Aikido schools with valid legal affiliations with an Aikido group in the mother country (Japan) are doing "legal" Aikido.

in purely strict terms, the "true" Aikido is what Uyeshiba's grandchild (the 3rd Doshu, Moriteru) says it is. Thus, only the Aikikai is considered "true legal Aikido".

However, it is said that Uyeshiba sensei himself, in his lifetime, told his senior students "you must discover your own Aikido". Thus, all other Aikido styles/flavors has the right to continue as unique martial arts, different with the Aikikai, but with their own beauty.

All Aikido styles has their own strengths. I personally prefer the Tomiki style. But I am now training at an Aiki Jujutsu dojo. I think it's all boils down to your own feelings. If you enjoy being in a Dojo, then stick with that Dojo and do not worry about legalities or which is "Real" Aikido :)
 

KOROHO

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Endow said:
However he also expressed how ketchup can only be called ketchup if the recipe is the original.If you had garlic or take tomato it won't be ketchup anymore.

He was talking about the Aikido taught by O-Sensei and Saito Sensei.The ture Iwama-ryu.

The only problem with this is that O-Senei himself kept changing the recipe. Our Aikido is essentially Yoshinkan, which was founded by Gozo Shioda. Shioda and Ueshiba split while Shioda was still teaching what he was taught by Ueshiba. But because Ueshiba changed Aikido afterwards, some claim the Yoshinkan is not "real Aikido".

All styles of Aikido share common principles. It is these principles that make Aikido Aikido. You can add to them and still have Aikido. It is when you take away that you cease to have Aikido.
 

jujutsu_indonesia

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incidentally, I think all martial arts based on the teachings of Takeda Sokaku (and that includes teachings of Uyeshiba, Okuyama, Morita's Nihon goshin, etc), should be catagorized as "aiki arts". Because they're all related and shares same characteristics.
 

agranjero

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I have been practicing Yoseikan Budo for 13 or 14 years now. Mochizuki was one of the early students of Ueshiba, and was sent to Ueshiba by Kano to learn the new art. Mochizuki is considered on of the early masters of aiki and at the time of his death was 10th Dan in aiki with permission of the Ueshiba family. If you watch the aiki we do, you will see a very early form that is more closely aligned with a soft jiujitsu style or aikijutsu. As we have developed, what is aiki about Yoseikan Budo is the circular approach to movements we use even when punching and kicking or sparring. But, what is more, we approach budo from an aiki spirit, we want only to "stop the conflict" (as one defininition of budo would explain) by using the principles of harmonizing with the energy of our opponent. We do this with the sword, with atemi, with ground work, with throws and joint locks. Only ever enough to stop the conflict. Yoseikan means "the place where what is right is taught" and for us it means what is true or right for the individual, so for me, aiki is the spirit of the art I practice and that is my connection to O Sensei. For me that is true aiki.
 

jujutsu_indonesia

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so glad to hear from Yoseikan friends. I have seen a demo of Yoseikan people, at the presence of Mochizuki sensei himself. It is a long demo of attack and countering with aiki moves (how to counter shihonage, iriminage, hiji shime etc). I have also seen the sutemi no kata of Yoseikan. I think Yoseikan is one very wonderful Budo style.
 
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